Need Furling System Help Please?

[Dougal]

Hi Guys
Just arrived at our boat in France to discover what 'appears' to be a major problem with the Facnor LS Furling System. The boat has stood for about 18 months without sails and the system feels like it might be 'stuck' to the forestay. This is my only experience of furling systems, being an old 'hank on' kind of chap.

The drum assembly and halyard swivel bearing seem fine, but if I rotate the system, it gets harder to turn and springs back when released. Is turning the thing unwinding the forestay???

Having a deflector block at the mast head, there's never been any halyard wrap whatsoever, so never had previous issues with it.

The boat is ALWAYS rinsed well after use, but the mooring is inland on fresh water. We get a LOT of green algae on the boat and its rigging but not had this in nearly 10 years of use.

Can the foil bearings lock to the forestay??!!

The plan was to go sailing but....:-(

All advice welcome and appreciated.

 

[savageseadog]

One or both sets of bearings, top swivel and drum swivel will be jammed in some way

 

[dom]

Agree with ssd. Release jib halyard and unwind a little jib sighting up the sail to ensure no halyard wrap. If its freer it’s the top swivel — a common problem and easy to sort. It may be the lower drum and this should be greased; but it may also have slipped down. Give it a little lift and see if there’s any movement. If yes that’s the problem.

My my bet is the top swivel; if yes look at this thread, post no. 8 describes the std remedy. If not try the link below to the relevant Facnor docs and let us know what you’ve found.

Good luck with a quick fix

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?499670-Stiff-Facnor-LS165-top-swivel-Halyard&

http://www.facnor.com/uk/technical_...chiers/installationnote_notice_2014_light.pdf

 

[Quandary]

At the base of a Facnor foil there is a oval shaped casting, black with Facnor badging secured with stainless steel straps, above it an bonded to it there is about 50mm. of exposed aluminium tube, above at the top of the tube and integral with it (bearings and rubber seals) is a black cast tube about 80mm long and similar diameter to which are bolted the top and bottom split aluminium flanges of the drum, this larger cast tube is the drum hub. Inside that tube there is another about 45 mm dia. which has a cast flange which bolts through the top flange of the drum into the hub. The smaller upper tube has ribs to grip the first section of foil with a grub screw at he top.
More complex than most but, unlike the foil itself, easy to dismantle; I suspect that the drum hub bearings are seized . Take of the furling line unbolt the 4 half flanges of the drum, wash and lubricate the bearings between the tube and the hub. (Alternatively read the maintenance instructions for lubrication of the bottom bearing, I have the bits but not the instructions). Looking at the hub I suspect it is intended to be permanently lubricated as there is no provision for regular lubrication but its position makes it vulnerable to salty water, the one I have here is quite salty but turns fine.
If parts for a Facnor SD 180 are needed PM me, I have bits but not the foil sections, (though I know where they are) they will only cost the carriage.

Reading the above, if the sail is off and the top bearing is down I can not see how it could have anything to do with your problem.

 

[Dougal]

Agree with ssd. Release jib halyard and unwind a little jib sighting up the sail to ensure no halyard wrap. If its freer it’s the top swivel — a common problem and easy to sort. It may be the lower drum and this should be greased; but it may also have slipped down. Give it a little lift and see if there’s any movement. If yes that’s the problem.

My my bet is the top swivel; if yes look at this thread, post no. 8 describes the std remedy. If not try the link below to the relevant Facnor docs and let us know what you’ve found.

Good luck with a quick fix

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?499670-Stiff-Facnor-LS165-top-swivel-Halyard&

http://www.facnor.com/uk/technical_...chiers/installationnote_notice_2014_light.pdf

Sorry I guess I didn't make it clear. There is no sail on the system and has not been for 18 months. Top swivel is down as halyard not hoistedd

 

[Old Bumbulum]

I too have just acquired a boat with F***nor LS furling, the asterisks are to explain my riggers language whenever it is mentioned. They are apparently "sealed for life" and maintenance of bearings is very limited, if even that. They have a very poor reputation for becoming stiff as mine are.
However you say your drum and top bearing is free but it springs back when released. Am I right in thinking that the foil sections are supported internally on the forestay by rubber bushes - no doubt someone will confirm or deny this? If so "springing back" after turning sounds to me like a bush siezed on the headstay somewhere up the foil. Could easily be wrong but just a thought.
Will shortly (tomorrow) have a proper furling system fitted and thus two complete sets of F-nor (160 and 190 I think) furling for disposal inc foils, one of which works OK.

 

[Dougal]

Thanks Quandary some great info there. I've located the installation manual so have some pics of the internals. The only unusual thing, at least for a British boat, is being fitted by a French yard, they didn't use either a turnbuckle or the usual side strap kit. They simply put chain plates at the bottom.

 

[dom]

Sorry I guess I didn't make it clear. There is no sail on the system and has not been for 18 months. Top swivel is down as halyard not hoistedd

Rereading, mea culpa you were clear! Okay, couple of thoughts:

1. Normally force from the furler cannot be imparted on the forestay because of spacer bushings, but if - as you suggest - it has somehow bonded to the forestay it certainly will. A lot of force will in that instance open and destroy the forestay. There are spacers to prevent such a bonding, but something could have gone wrong.

2. The first step is to determine if the foil is bonded to the forestay, or whether there is a problem in the furler itself. Release the furler foil from drum (see Facnor link) and determine which it is.

3. If it's the foil, it may be possible to wiggle it free, but if something has really gone grong (can't see why it should, then it will need to come down for repair. Pay attention to the tescopic section and in particular the lug screw which holds it light. Also look like a hawk for any bits of twine, rope strands, or whatever may be catching it up-top.

4. If it's the furling drum it may just need a regrease/clean. It may of course need more work, but a good clean/grease can sort it in the vast majority of cases.
​

Be careful not to drop any bits into the sea

 

[Dougal]

Be careful not to drop any bits into the sea

They can join all my spanners and assorted tools etc;-)

 

[Dougal]

Although I know next to nothing about furling systems, I did replace all the standing rigging (except forestay) myself two years ago using Sta-Lok fittings. The boat is ketch rigged with an awful triatic link stay. I 'THINK' its possible to loosen all turnbuckles and disconnect the forestay without the entire rig coming down. I think what I call the inner forestay, though probably really called a baby stay, will keep the mast up;-) Watch this space...

 

[ianat182]

If concerned about supporting the mast you could use the spinnaker hayard as a temporary additional support attached to the bow roller; then lower the whole foil etc .

ianat182

 

[pandos]

If there is no sail or halyard attached it cannot be classic halyard wrap so you can risk turning the assembly so it tightens the twist of the foresaty rather than opening it, I would spray wd40 everywhere I can on the lower sections and then wiggle/shake/twist the foil until it broke free...

 

[Dougal]

Tried everything Finally had to ask local French boat yard. They MIGHT come thismorning.

 

[Quandary]

Tried everything Finally had to ask local French boat yard. They MIGHT come thismorning.

When you do identify the problem, don't just sail go off to the pub smiling, let us know the outcome.

 

[Dougal]

When you do identify the problem, don't just sail go off to the pub smiling, let us know the outcome.

Funny you should say that. The guys have just finished the job. Really simple. As the original fitting utilised chain plates and not the side straps, somehow something had moved or dropped, causing the inside of the drum mechanism to hit the top edges of the chain plates. They obviously were not cut down short enough at first fitting.
Genoa now up and furled.

As always guys, much gratitude to you all for trying to help me.
Now for my next major issue... Electric windlass is dead!!!