Navtex needed?

[DirtGambit]

Hi, first post on this forum so thank you for having me, I recently bought a navtex machine usb to plug into my on board computer, but ive noticed an app on the android and apple store that delivers the same information, can this data be trusted and have people moved from hardware to apps with success? eg chart plotting etc ive checked navarea 1 and UK coastal from the UKHO website and it seems to check out ok, I'm not really required to carry a navtex but its nice to have the information at hand especially if I'm crossing areas.

regards

 

[GHA]

Certainly not *needed* but can be handy once away from the web. Maybe not so much for weather these days with the accuracy of gribs over a few days but can be great for nav warnings, firing ranges etc. Getting the data into a lptop works well with Opencpn as you can cut and paste lat/long of "nets adrift" or whatever straight into a waypoint.

Welcome to the forum

 

[andyp]

Welcome...

Key difference is that any app will require internet connectivity (cellular 3/4G or WiFi) to receive the messages.

The hardware receives the same messages as a radio transmission (remember Medium Wave), so when you lose the mobile phone signal, you should still be able to receive Navtex messages ‘over the airwaves’.

 

[franksingleton]

NAVTEX is an integral part of the GMDSS. When beyond VHF range out to around 200-300 miles out it can be your only source of wea ther warnings, forecasts and other safety information. That is, of course, unless you have satellite connection via Iridium or other suppliers. Unlike internet forecasts etc, forecasts come to you (a push system). With the internet, you have to go and look for warnings, forecasts etc ie a pull system.

NAVTEX has its (unavoidable) problems as do all terrestrial radio systems. You might (or might not) wish to see http://weather.mailasail.com/Franks-Weather/Navtex-Reception-Problems-And-Curesand associated pages.

One advantage inshore is when you are abroad and want to receive Nav warnings. We have sat through VHF broadcasts in several languages, in poor English, when we could read one text in English on NAVTEX.

If your sailing is exclusively within or mostly within VHF range then the sole virtue of NAVTEX is as a back-up in the event of you having no internet access. If you will be out of VHF range for long periods eg one day or more then I would say that NAVTEX is a must have. It is obligatory for commercial vessels > 300 grt and for training vessels.

We carry NAVTEX “just in case.” Around the U.K. and Germany only (as far as I know) the national frequency of 490kHz is used for inshore forecasts. Otherwise, forecasts on the international 518 kHz frequency are all for sea areas ie shipping forecast type areas.

 

[pagoda]

NAVTEX is an integral part of the GMDSS. When beyond VHF range out to around 200-300 miles out it can be your only source of wea ther warnings, forecasts and other safety information. That is, of course, unless you have satellite connection via Iridium or other suppliers. Unlike internet forecasts etc, forecasts come to you (a push system). With the internet, you have to go and look for warnings, forecasts etc ie a pull system.

NAVTEX has its (unavoidable) problems as do all terrestrial radio systems. You might (or might not) wish to see http://weather.mailasail.com/Franks-Weather/Navtex-Reception-Problems-And-Curesand associated pages.

One advantage inshore is when you are abroad and want to receive Nav warnings. We have sat through VHF broadcasts in several languages, in poor English, when we could read one text in English on NAVTEX.

If your sailing is exclusively within or mostly within VHF range then the sole virtue of NAVTEX is as a back-up in the event of you having no internet access. If you will be out of VHF range for long periods eg one day or more then I would say that NAVTEX is a must have. It is obligatory for commercial vessels > 300 grt and for training vessels.

We carry NAVTEX “just in case.” Around the U.K. and Germany only (as far as I know) the national frequency of 490kHz is used for inshore forecasts. Otherwise, forecasts on the international 518 kHz frequency are all for sea areas ie shipping forecast type areas.

+1 , tend to agree... 3G (any G) isn't always available. You don't need to wait for time slots for Navtex. Just pick the "latest" button for your chosen areas. You can't always get VHF weather either. Old skool but pretty useful in my opinion.

 

[JimC]

I agree, I only do coastal sailing in UK waters but I wouldn't be without it.

 

[franksingleton]

Certainly not *needed* but can be handy once away from the web. Maybe not so much for weather these days with the accuracy of gribs over a few days but can be great for nav warnings, firing ranges etc. Getting the data into a lptop works well with Opencpn as you can cut and paste lat/long of "nets adrift" or whatever straight into a waypoint.

Welcome to the forum

My personal opinion is to use a dedicated NAVTEX receiver. Computers need power. Using NAVTEX, I want to be able to read the message right away, not later. The current drain is minimal.

It depends where you sail. W Scotland is bad news for internet when roaming. Brittany, the Vendee, Charente Maritime are great. More reliable than VHF or NAVTEX. Even a few miles out. I can still use the internet with my little Huawei 5330 dongle. If I spent £100 more or so, I would be able to receive 15 or more miles out.

 

[Pye_End]

Welcome...

Key difference is that any app will require internet connectivity (cellular 3/4G or WiFi) to receive the messages.

Unless you get the latest offering from NASA Marine, which uses an App as the display, so you can put the receiver anywhere (within reason). Connect phone/tablet using bluetooth.

Together with the new antenna, the unit seems to give impressive results.

 

[Graham376]

We have a printing NAVTEX which is very useful for advance warning of firing practice in Bay of Cadiz, rather than VHF warnings on the day.

 

[franksingleton]

Unless you get the latest offering from NASA Marine, which uses an App as the display, so you can put the receiver anywhere (within reason). Connect phone/tablet using bluetooth.

Together with the new antenna, the unit seems to give impressive results.

In my experience with my own sets and comparing with others, there is little difference in reception ability between budget sets and the top end. The constraints are largely those imposed by the realities of radio wave propagation. Frequencies are chosen for ground wave propagation and are low power, 1kW by day and about 0.3 at night. Aerial positioning on the boat can be critical. Differences between sets seems more related to quality of display, functions and longevity.

Can somebody explain to me the benefits of not having a dedicated receiver/viewer. What are the benefits of reading on a computer or tablet?

 

[GHA]

What are the benefits of reading on a computer or tablet?

Main benefits for me are easy of filtering the messages, and being able to put lat/longs straight into Opencpn in a few moments - extremely useful - woud be simple to paste into the OpenCPN logbook as well if you wanted to. Another benefit is not needing to use up yet more valuable instrument space above the chart table. Being able to view the messages anywhere is handy solo as well.

Smaller vessels power could be a problem but you don't need a laptop running ll the time, just check it now and again then back to sleep. My Raspberry Pi setup the message gets automatically detected & displayed, would be easy to set an alarm.

Again smaller vessel might have the risk of wet down below not being very good for consumer electronics, a well designed system shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Graham376]

The constraints are largely those imposed by the realities of radio wave propagation. Frequencies are chosen for ground wave propagation and are low power, 1kW by day and about 0.3 at night. Aerial positioning on the boat can be critical.

Unfortunately, there can be some big holes in reception when sailing inshore, wherever the aerial. Previous owner of our current boat placed the aerial at mast head and reception is better than same model of receiver and taff rail aerial I had on our previous boat. On our old Berwick, I used the rigging as an aerial for the Locata we had then. Woke up one morning (N Wales) to find iceberg and severe ice warnings! Turned out we were receiving Grand Banks forecast

 

[scruff]

Has something changed recently to improve Navtex recently? We sail on the Clyde / West coast and Navtex, whilst good idea, has never worked. We only ever seem to get garbled gibberish.

However, turned the unit on at launch this year whilst boat fettling and messages actually came though. Same again last weekend. It feels like the first time it has actually presented a coherent transmission.

 

[Roberto]

Just for info, in France (and frequently in Spain) they keep gmdss areas A1 and A2 well split:
A1 - VHF: the bulletins and nav warnings one receives are coastal
A2 - Navtex: bulletins and nav warnings are offshore

Example along the French Atlantic coast:
On the VHF one gets weather "bulletin côtier", which goes out to 20M, and coastal nav warnings: for example activity in the firing range between Groix and Belle Ile
On Navtex: offshore bulletins (sea areas Iroise, Yeu, Pazenn, Cantabrico, etc), and offshore nav warning: for example activity in offshore firing ranges (ex D18D Armorique, D16A Gascogne, etc)
The two sets of information are different and kept separated, the navtex will not give the coastal info and viceversa the VHF will not give the offshore info (except on request to coastal stations of course).

 

[franksingleton]

Main benefits for me are easy of filtering the messages, and being able to put lat/longs straight into Opencpn in a few moments - extremely useful - woud be simple to paste into the OpenCPN logbook as well if you wanted to. Another benefit is not needing to use up yet more valuable instrument space above the chart table. Being able to view the messages anywhere is handy solo as well.

Smaller vessels power could be a problem but you don't need a laptop running ll the time, just check it now and again then back to sleep. My Raspberry Pi setup the message gets automatically detected & displayed, would be easy to set an alarm.

Again smaller vessel might have the risk of wet down below not being very good for consumer electronics, a well designed system shouldn't be a problem.

OK. We are not a large vessel. Our two yachts have been 31 and 34 ft.

On the other side, power drain is minimal. I see messages instantly. A NAVTEX receiver is not large.

 

[franksingleton]

Unfortunately, there can be some big holes in reception when sailing inshore, wherever the aerial. Previous owner of our current boat placed the aerial at mast head and reception is better than same model of receiver and taff rail aerial I had on our previous boat. On our old Berwick, I used the rigging as an aerial for the Locata we had then. Woke up one morning (N Wales) to find iceberg and severe ice warnings! Turned out we were receiving Grand Banks forecast

That reception problem is unavoidable with NAVTEX. You get it wherever your aerial is placed. Night time sky wave is a fact of life with those frequencies.

 

[GHA]

OK. We are not a large vessel. Our two yachts have been 31 and 34 ft.

I'm 33'

Both alternatives have pluses & negatives, it's not a critical system for me, just nice to have - weather comes from different sources (wfax & grib HF) which have much more precision.
Nav warnings are nice to have like dredging , survey vessels etc which is where OpenCPN lat/longs come into their own, though with navtex online much can be seen before setting off.

 

[franksingleton]

Just for info, in France (and frequently in Spain) they keep gmdss areas A1 and A2 well split:
A1 - VHF: the bulletins and nav warnings one receives are coastal
A2 - Navtex: bulletins and nav warnings are offshore

Example along the French Atlantic coast:
On the VHF one gets weather "bulletin côtier", which goes out to 20M, and coastal nav warnings: for example activity in the firing range between Groix and Belle Ile
On Navtex: offshore bulletins (sea areas Iroise, Yeu, Pazenn, Cantabrico, etc), and offshore nav warning: for example activity in offshore firing ranges (ex D18D Armorique, D16A Gascogne, etc)
The two sets of information are different and kept separated, the navtex will not give the coastal info and viceversa the VHF will not give the offshore info (except on request to coastal stations of course).

Hi, Robero. I hope you and the family are all well.

The split A1/A2 is observed generally for weather. Inshore on VHF, offshore (au large) on NAVTEX.

As regrads Nav warnings, I have had inshore warnings in the Girinde estuary area on NAVTEX.

Incidentally, any news on Navimail?

 

[Roberto]

Incidentally, any news on Navimail?

Hello Frank,
unfortunately nothing after the official announcement they were ending the service; I remember your interest and will keep you updated should anything new appear.

All the best Frank,
r.

 

[Pye_End]

Has something changed recently to improve Navtex recently? We sail on the Clyde / West coast and Navtex, whilst good idea, has never worked. We only ever seem to get garbled gibberish.

It would be well worth your while trying the new NASA antenna.