Nav Systems - who's worth the money?

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jstewart30

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OK, guys. Just joined YBW to pick the brains of folks more experienced than I. I am helping my grandpa resurrect an 85 Chris Craft motoryacht that is in severe neglect. On top of trying to just clean the dang thing up, we need to replace many of the electronics that he somehow managed to short out (don't ask).

I have been doing my own research to see what products have the right specs, fit in the existing holes, etc. That's not that hard except I really don't know which brands of navigation equipment/gauges are actually worth looking at.

I need a brand that is reliable and has great products. My grandpa is paying for the repairs and new equipment and he basically said for me to find a new system that was good, fairly easy to use, and would avoid headaches and let him be concerned about the cost. That basically told me that he is willing to spend the money on something good if I could justify why it was good and not just "pretty".

What are your recommendations on navigation brands (chartplotter and other supporting products) to look at based on reliability, reputation, etc. that we won't regret using later. I am not concerned about specific models or system packages yet as I can pare that down once I know which companies are worth researching.

Any help you can provide is greatly appreciated.
Jace
 
In todays climate id go for Garmin and fit all there gear if starting from scratch.

Raymarine have lost it IMHO, although things like zoom in/out and speed draw are still poor on up to date plotters.

Last night I was lucky enough to play with an I pad loaded with navionics app.

The clarity, speed draw, pan and zoom was instant all by using fingers, the only down side would be it wont standup to wet, rain and salt water, though on an enclosed boat it would be great.

If your on a budget id look on ebay and set up with some older raymarine gear like the old rl70/80 hsb2 spec colour plotters and get a scanner 4kw, all this could be done for less than £1000 if you shop around.
 
If you just need a stand alone plotter, Standard Horizon are worth a look. If you need a more complex, integrated system, then for me, it has to be Garmin. I just ditched a few month old Raymarine C90W plotter and replaced it and the radar with Garmin, no more Raymarine for me, ever.
 
Agree with Paul. Raymarine was ok but yesterdays story. Garmin now rule the roost when it comes to design, function, quality and amazing service.
 
Agree - go for Garmin. Just upgraded my Raymarine for the 4000 Garmin series - brilliant. If you looking for a smaller stand alone - the 750 is impressive. Go have a look at the G2 blue charts with photos etc.
 
Thanks guys! I posted this same question on The Hull Truth forum and the consensus there is for Raymarine and Simrad. They say Garmin can't do true network sharing between displays/MFD's.

Where do you see Simrad on stacking up against Garmin and Raymarine for an integrated, networked navigation system? Keep in mind that my grandpa also wants to add short range radar and possibly autopilot.
 
jstewart30 said:
Thanks guys! I posted this same question on The Hull Truth forum and the consensus there is for Raymarine and Simrad. They say Garmin can't do true network sharing between displays/MFD's.

Where do you see Simrad on stacking up against Garmin and Raymarine for an integrated, networked navigation system? Keep in mind that my grandpa also wants to add short range radar and possibly autopilot.
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Pretty sure Garmin MFD's network just fine. Ian Grant has a Garmin network, i dare say he'll be alone soon to confirm that. Garmin radar works as is should with the MFD's, i have that on my boat. I also have AIS, which works far better on the Garmin than it did with Raymarine. My fishfinder and VHF also integrate. Garmin make their own autopilots.

JFM of this forum is having an entire Garmin network on a Sq78 which he is currently having built.

Can't comment on Simrad, as i have no experience of them.
 
jstewart30 said:
Thanks guys! I posted this same question on The Hull Truth forum and the consensus there is for Raymarine and Simrad. They say Garmin can't do true network sharing between displays/MFD's.

Where do you see Simrad on stacking up against Garmin and Raymarine for an integrated, networked navigation system? Keep in mind that my grandpa also wants to add short range radar and possibly autopilot.
Click to expand...

I'd say all the big names (Garmin, Simrad, Furuno and Raymarine) are good enough and worth a look, and you should choose from those what you like best.

I've had lots of Raymarine, some simrad, and on a new boat i have specced all Garmin

I think Garmin is the clearly best product currently, though that is just my opinion. The other brands have their own fans too

Raymarine is good but has a number of annoying limitations. Eg very dim screens on the ST70 series, slow chart redraw, inability to synch ST70s so when you want to dim/brighten them in the evening you have to do them one-by one, etc, and far less sexy/useful graphics than Garmin

Simrad (which I had some years ago) is well built but the user interface is non intuitive. You have to read the manual far too much to do simple things, then you forget the next time you use the boat. In contrast, Garmin and Raym is all intuitive so you hardly ever read the manual. Furuno is top quality kit and lots of professionals swear by it. Personally I can't see anyhting it does that Garmin doesn't though would be happy to be corrected. But it is not as intuitive as Raym/Gar, so somewhere between those two and Simrad on that score. If you buy anything 2nd hand avoid the trackball mouse on Furuno - it's unreliable

Finally, I'm intrigued by the Hull Truth comment. Garmin is fully networked afaik and lacks nothing in that department compared with the others. It has a nmea 2000 network for data that is the best in the business, and LAN style hub/switch with Cat5 cables for the video, same as Raym and Furuno. I'd be happy to know more and be corrected but I think whoever said that on Hull Truth may be wrong. My new Garmin system has 6 big colour displays and 8 of the small colour instrument displays so I'll be very unhappy if they don't network!
 
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I'm glad JFM mentioned NMEA 2000. The Garmin plotters not only support NMEA 2000, but come with enough hardware to construct a basic network, which the GPS antenna uses. They also come with a stack of other cables. Reading how much hardware JFM is fitting, he'll have enough cables left over to start his own cable shop lol
 
Garmin Network

Well my chartplutters are networked, on SD card in the main unit the the other displays share it, or t'other way around.

The equipment attached can be checked on the screen to see what is working.

The NMEA 2000 network runs on 12 volts and is easy to connect up, the Garmin VHF takes the position off it.

I also have a seperate connection to the ICOM VHF from a stand alone Garmin plotter.

The "rolling road" drove me nuts on the raymarine, the Garmin has mariners eye view which puts the waypoint on the chart view instead of it being split screen.

The HD Radar, AIS, Sonar can all be displayed on the screens.

So JFM, no need to be upset, the kit will all network.

Hope this helps, oh and lookie here: https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=162

Ian
 
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PaulGooch said:
I'm glad JFM mentioned NMEA 2000. The Garmin plotters not only support NMEA 2000, but come with enough hardware to construct a basic network, which the GPS antenna uses. They also come with a stack of other cables. Reading how much hardware JFM is fitting, he'll have enough cables left over to start his own cable shop lol
Click to expand...

Thanks guys. The comment from The Hull Truth on Garmin was
"garmin kinda runs simultaneous--not network. Waypoints, routes have to be "sent" to other control heads--individually, unless you batch them. Also, If you want the high end software, EACH display with garmin needs it's OWN chip...Raymarine works seemslessly with ONE chip...unless another garmin famous update has materialized."​

Now, I have no idea if this is true or not. I have been on boats some growing up but didn't live near one or near the ocean until recently. Now, my grandpa is trying to get me involved with fixing up his motoryacht and it's a great opportunity to spend more time with him.

So needless to say, I don't have enough experience to know what I like. I know that systems often look good in a store only to find out they are more difficult in real world situation (either operating them or installing/repairing them).

Seeing a fair amount of feedback on Garmin and Raymarine but still curious about hearing from people who have newer Simrad or Furuno equipment. Someone said Simrad changed hands a few years back so curious if that has improved or hurt things for them. I have almost no info on Furuno so far so curious about that as well as I see some of their radar domes on surrounding boats.
 
jstewart30 said:
Thanks guys. The comment from The Hull Truth on Garmin was
"garmin kinda runs simultaneous--not network. Waypoints, routes have to be "sent" to other control heads--individually, unless you batch them. Also, If you want the high end software, EACH display with garmin needs it's OWN chip...Raymarine works seemslessly with ONE chip...unless another garmin famous update has materialized."​
Click to expand...

What sort of setup are you planning for the boat ?
 
jstewart30 said:
Thanks guys! I posted this same question on The Hull Truth forum and the consensus there is for Raymarine and Simrad. They say Garmin can't do true network sharing between displays/MFD's.

Where do you see Simrad on stacking up against Garmin and Raymarine for an integrated, networked navigation system? Keep in mind that my grandpa also wants to add short range radar and possibly autopilot.
Click to expand...

Garmin MFDs are fully networked. Garmins kit include MFDs, radar, sonar, ais, auto pilot, instrumentation, cctv, weather, etc.

PS: On a tangent issue, NMEA 2000 has proven to be not as interoperable between different manufactures equipment. Loads of "proprietary" addons to the protocal that have made it a sham! By Raymarine to Raymarine and Garmin to Garmin is 100%. Many installers stick with older NEMA interface for simple addons devices.
 
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jstewart30 said:
comment from The Hull Truth
" If you want the high end software, EACH display with garmin needs it's OWN chip."​
Click to expand...

I'll happily be corrected if anyone knows better but I don't think that is correct. I think (and hope!) one chip is shared between all the displays. As i say the architecture of the Garmin system isb LAN-style Cat5 cable via a hub/switch, exactly same as Raymarine, so I'd be amazed if they couldn't share the chip data
 
Thanks. I will check into the Garmin networking question more.

What can you guys tell me about Simrad? Good, bad, pros, cons? Also, same questions for Furuno?

Also, does Garmin work with Navionics or other marine mapping for charting?
 
It does

jfm said:
I'll happily be corrected if anyone knows better but I don't think that is correct. I think (and hope!) one chip is shared between all the displays. As i say the architecture of the Garmin system isb LAN-style Cat5 cable via a hub/switch, exactly same as Raymarine, so I'd be amazed if they couldn't share the chip data
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An ST card in one chart plotter is shared throughout the others..the video comes up regardless along with all other data on the network.

The chart/tidal etc.. data will not be displayed on the other units if the screen with the SD card is not powered up.

To update the system software you download it to an SD card, stick it in one of the plotters and each device in turn displays "updating" even the simple multifunction log/speed/wind/whatever (they are multifunction you choose what they display, including pop up info like trim tabs etc)

The "Hub" I have is a passive bus affair each part of the system connected on a T connector stub, autohelm, wind, sounder, radar, et all, and I have a standard cat 5 RJ45 for sticking ethernet onto the network, mind you it's not PC compatible, It's the marine style of hardware system NOT standard ethernet (can't remember it's specific name)

If you have a sounder or a sonar or two of each you can choose auto or manually select the sender.

I've poked and prodded, added the trim tab sender played around and couldn't break the system, it hasn't faltered (apart from when I drilled through the cat 5 to the radar!)

The chartplotters will also display and support NMEA inputs

The boat is in Chi harbour, anyone who fancies a poke about with the kit PM me and I'll show you around.

I've no commercial link to Garmin (or any others) just like their kit.

Ian
 
Blimey

jstewart30 said:
Thanks. I will check into the Garmin networking question more.

What can you guys tell me about Simrad? Good, bad, pros, cons? Also, same questions for Furuno?

Also, does Garmin work with Navionics or other marine mapping for charting?
Click to expand...

The Garmin web site tells all including: http://www.garmin.com/sites/uk/maps/bluechart for the charts.

If you go to their FAQ section it will tell you all yu want to know, if you still have a question their engineers will normally answer and email enquiry within about two or three hours.

If you type simrad into google it will tell you when they merged/got taken over by lowrance etc.. Raymarine I believe are in troubled times and trying to find their way with the new company that took them over, Furuno well, maybe outside the leasure boating market??

Ian
 
jstewart30 said:
Thanks. I will check into the Garmin networking question more.

What can you guys tell me about Simrad? Good, bad, pros, cons? Also, same questions for Furuno?

Also, does Garmin work with Navionics or other marine mapping for charting?
Click to expand...

Garmin uses Garmin G2 vision mapping. Raymarine uses Navionics. Navionics is one of the worst, no, make that the worst, company i have ever dealt with in connection with my boat. Raymarine are a close second. Customer support is not something either have any concept of, IMO. Garmin support is better than first class.

Erm, no offence, but you keep asking about Simrad, doesn't the fact that no-one here has mentioned them (apart from a slight negative from JFM) tell you something ? JFM has used all four and has just chosen a zillion quids worth of Garmin kit for his new boat. I have recently used Standard Horizon, Raymarine and now Garmin. Garmin is by far the better product to Raymarine and their customer support is a gazillion times better than Raymarine. Navionics support was a big fat, "get lost". If you want to read the full story of my dealings with Navionics and Raymarine see here (pour yourself a drink first) :

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=231510

and here :

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=240225

You'll also see some other users feedback at the time.
 
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