Nav Systems - who's worth the money?

[iangrant]

Agree with Paul here

The Raymarine E80 with "navi" onics was pants compared to the Garmin.

Would never go back.

The Garmin support is second to none, emails get answered, they sent me an update on an SD card for their kit on the boat I had bought arrived next day in the post.

Ian

 

[PaulGooch]

<snip>

The "Hub" I have is a passive bus affair each part of the system connected on a T connector stub, autohelm, wind, sounder, radar, et all, and I have a standard cat 5 RJ45 for sticking ethernet onto the network, mind you it's not PC compatible, It's the marine style of hardware system NOT standard ethernet (can't remember it's specific name)

<snip>

The T connectors are the NMEA2000 network Ian. Your GMI 10 displays, autopilot, GPS antenna etc will be connected using the NMEA2000 network. Radar and the GSD black box fishfinder use the Garmin network (cat5 cables as JFM stated). To connect two plotters together, you also use the Garmin marine network.

 

[iangrant]

Everywhere

The T connectors are the NMEA2000 network Ian. Your GMI 10 displays, autopilot, GPS antenna etc will be connected using the NMEA2000 network. Radar and the GSD black box fishfinder use the Garmin network (cat5 cables as JFM stated). To connect two plotters together, you also use the Garmin marine network.

There are cables everywhere and black boxes I keep stumbling over in dark corners!!

Recently noticed a cat 5 cable(s) from the oil pressure senders (analogue) going into a cabling box nightmare then it dissapears off but haven't traced it yet, I think there is another box hidden in the depths that turns the analogue outputs from the engines to the network, must do that as they don't display.

BTW the Garmin 2000 network is CAN see here: http://www.copperhillmedia.com/cannewsletter/j1939references3.html

 

[jstewart30]

Erm, no offence, but you keep asking about Simrad, doesn't the fact that no-one here has mentioned them (apart from a slight negative from JFM) tell you something ?

Paul - thanks for the info. The reason I have asked about Simrad is that a couple people on The Hull Truth have really been claiming them as good. One even posted a link to Simrad winning at the Newport Boat Show with one of their products.

I honestly don't know if they are any good or not. Awards are good but I would rather hear from other boat owners that own them. If you looked at Simrad and decided to stay away from them, I REALLY want to know why. If you don't really know that much about them, that's fair to say too.

I am curious about the same thing with Furuno. Are they for gigantic boats only, only for boats on the West Coast, or what?

I am gathering advice for my grandpa on this stuff and I really don't want to lead him down a path he will regret later. I will never hear the end of it for sure! He will hold it over my head for years to come just because he can.

Let me know. Thanks.

 

[PaulGooch]

There are cables everywhere and black boxes I keep stumbling over in dark corners!!

Recently noticed a cat 5 cable(s) from the oil pressure senders (analogue) going into a cabling box nightmare then it dissapears off but haven't traced it yet, I think there is another box hidden in the depths that turns the analogue outputs from the engines to the network, must do that as they don't display.

BTW the Garmin 2000 network is CAN see here: http://www.copperhillmedia.com/cannewsletter/j1939references3.html

Yeah, all these fancy "new" "Marine" networks are something else. The Garmin marine network and Raymarine's Seatlk HS are smoke and mirrors. They are nothing more than an ethernet network. The £240 Raymarine or Garmin network switches are no different in use to a plain old PC ethernet hub/switch, costing £40-£50. When i had the Raymarine plotter and radar i connected them using a standard Cat5 cable (rather than Raymarines £40 one) and a second hand hub/switch from Ebay for 99p

 

[iangrant]

There's not a lot of simrad

stuff about in the UK obviously and for that matter maybe not Furuno either!!

I am starting to think this may be a marketing fishing trip??

Ian

 

[PaulGooch]

<snip> If you looked at Simrad and decided to stay away from them, I REALLY want to know why. If you don't really know that much about them, that's fair to say too.

<snip>

I have no experience of using Simrad, but did briefly look at them when changing from Standard Horizon to the ill fated Raymarine. They were/are part of the Navico group, who, i understand, have a pretty bad name for customer support here in the UK, one reason i avoided them.

 

[jstewart30]

I have no experience of using Simrad, but did briefly look at them when changing from Standard Horizon to the ill fated Raymarine. They were/are part of the Navico group, who, i understand, have a pretty bad name for customer support here in the UK, one reason i avoided them.

Ah, OK. I am outside Houston, Texas (close to Galveston) so a long way from the UK. Guessing that the products are basically the same between US and UK but would hope they have different customer service groups. Of course, they could do like some of the gigantic companies and route everything through India - which is a bad, bad idea in my opinion.

Thanks for the help so far. Really appreciate it!

 

[jfm]

The T connectors are the NMEA2000 network Ian. Your GMI 10 displays, autopilot, GPS antenna etc will be connected using the NMEA2000 network. Radar and the GSD black box fishfinder use the Garmin network (cat5 cables as JFM stated). To connect two plotters together, you also use the Garmin marine network.

Exactly. On both Raymarine and Garmin there are kinda 2 networks. One is nmea2000 with backbone and T connectors. the other is the RJ45 connected ethernet network that goes through the switching hub and shares video etc. The two networks are totally separate so far as physical wiring up by the user is concerned. (I know I'm telling you how to suck eggs here Paul, please forgive me, I'm just making the 2-network point 200% clear!)

 

[iangrant]

OK OK

Exactly. On both Raymarine and Garmin there are kinda 2 networks. One is nmea2000 with backbone and T connectors. the other is the RJ45 connected ethernet network that goes through the switching hub and shares video etc. The two networks are totally separate so far as physical wiring up by the user is concerned. (I know I'm telling you how to suck eggs here Paul, please forgive me, I'm just making the 2-network point 200% clear!)

so i just have to find the network hub, JFM you are lucky you are in there at build stage and you'll know where the kit is, rather than my voyage of discovery!!

Please though, I've mentioned about fitting cooling fans, the kit does get V hot, tell me you are?

 

[jfm]

If you looked at Simrad and decided to stay away from them, I REALLY want to know why.

I've owned Sim and Raym, and used used Sim, Ray and Furuno extensively at sea, and I'm 1000% sure that Raymarine have cracked the idea of easy user intuitive interface (never read the manual) and Sim + Fur have not (you keep having to figure stuff out and sometimes consult manual)

However Raym have some annoying features including too-dim screens on ST70 and dull graphics. Garmin have (by lots of reliable accounts and some preliminary demo playing by me) got an equally intuitive user interface to Raym, and they clearly have far better graphics and brighter displays than Raym. And by all accounts Garmin has top quality customer support (though I have found Raym customer support pretty good).

Weighing all that up it's a no brainer for a new boat: Garmin. But this is very much an "each to their own" topic, so you may well prefer one of the others

 

[MYAG]

Raymarine ST70 too dim....hmmm? I too had a pretty good look around before choosing the nav gear for my new boat. TBH, I really couldn't find a big enough advantage from one manufacturer to another to get excited about, or anything so different that would make me change the way I used the boat. So I stuck with Raymarine as I have got used to them, never had a problem with their support, service or warranty. The new boat spec.......

 

[jfm]

Raymarine ST70 too dim....hmmm? I too had a pretty good look around before choosing the nav gear for my new boat. TBH, I really couldn't find a big enough advantage from one manufacturer to another to get excited about, or anything so different that would make me change the way I used the boat. So I stuck with Raymarine as I have got used to them, never had a problem with their support, service or warranty. The new boat spec.......

MYAG there's no prob with your system. You have the super-dooper ST70, called ST70+ or something, with the remote control panels (which are good on s/seeker becuase the house style is to mount the plotters and screens far back from the navigator). They are ok brightness-wise afaik.

The too-dim ones are the normal ST70s; the ones that have same footprint as the older ST60+, which is not what is on your spec. I had 6 on the last boat and they were most definitely too dim for med sun, and way dimmer than Garmin equivalents and than the E series Raym screens. Also the ST70s don't dim in synch; you have to do each of them one-by-one. I hope that isn't the case for your ST70+

You remind me of an interesting point which is that Garmin doesn't really work on s/seeker as you need the benefit of raymarine's remotes, becuase s'seeker place the screens far away from the users. Garmin touchscreens would be a disaster. My set up is different as Fairline's house style is to have the screens right up close to the users, which is ideal for Garmin touch screen

Good to see you have a windex. Actually on that point the Garmin is way better than the Raym becuase the windex contains a temp and pressure sensor too. And they store the history in a bit of memory. So the nav screen can show barograph and thermograph, ie trends over last few days or whatever.

 

[iangrant]

Garmin remote

The touch screens have a remote, a single button mouse, the ones with buttons have a hand held remote, as does the autohelm so with that you can steer the boat from anywhere

Ian

 

[MYAG]

The too-dim ones are the normal ST70s; the ones that have same footprint as the older ST60+..........

Read it too quickly, you are right, "+" makes all the difference in the brightness stakes. Not sure if the ST70+'s dim in synch, (dont think they do), not a big deal for me as I only have 2, 6 would start to be a pain.

 

[PaulGooch]

<snip>
The too-dim ones are the normal ST70s; the ones that have same footprint as the older ST60+, which is not what is on your spec. I had 6 on the last boat and they were most definitely too dim for med sun, and way dimmer than Garmin equivalents and than the E series Raym screens. Also the ST70s don't dim in synch; you have to do each of them one-by-one. <snip>

I think you'll be very happy with the Garmin brightness John. The plotters are nice and bright and have auto dimming and auto night time colour schemes. I confess to being a little sceptical at first, but the auto setting does work well.

 

[MapisM]

I must be missing something here.
An '85 Chris Craft in severe neglect, with most electronics belly up, and you're concerned about the chartplotter?
I'd rather throw some money in properly restoring the original dashboard, and use a portable PC for navigation.

 

[jfm]

The plotters ... have auto dimming and auto night time colour schemes.

Thanks for the info. I'm liking the sound of this! I just got a pic of my flybr dash with all the Garmin installed; will post a pic later on the in-build thread. Gotta run now for a couple of hours.