Nav lights, LEDS bulbs and cut-off

[eddystone]

Before relaunch in Spring plan to replace pretty well all incandescent with LEDs, either new fittings as in cabin or LED bulbs as in nav lights (apart from possibly bow fitting where gap between backplate and body)

I recall reading something, possibly in YM, about cut being affected on bi and tri-colours when LED bulbs used. The guy at Boatlamps, however, said not a problem and that people making comparison to a reference which isn't achieved in real world anyway.

Any other data available?

 

[Boathook]

I converted all my nav lights using the led ones from Boatlamps. Cut off seems fine and the lights are much brighter. My tri-light was also 90 degrees out once, and no one commented upon the fact when entering harbours, etc in the dark.

 

[bedouin]

Technically I am sure they are correct in many cases however in the real world I don't see it would make any difference at all

After all how many boats have you seen that have an exact an immediate transition from the side light to the stern light at exactly the right angle.

 

[ltcom]

I thought (and this needs verification) that to comply with the law (and therefore have insurance cover if there is an incident) only nav lights that are designed and made using led bulbs are kosha ? Retrofitted nav lights may not have correct sectors (I thought I read).

So if I hit a ferry or something and the investigators examined my boat and found my lights were not kosha then my insurance would not pay out?

 

[JimC]

I replaced the filament bulb in my masthead tricolour with a warm white LED, I think I got it from Boatlamps. The cut-off between sectors isn't quite as sharp as with the filament bulb with its single central filament. There are sectors of at most ten degrees where an intermediate colour is seen. this is from fairly close to and lower down. I think that viewed from a greater distance and nearer to horizontal there is even less apparent overlap. It doesn't bother me, especially as the lights are now brighter. I'd rather be sure of being seen than worry about the last degree of cut-off, especially as with the LED I'm unlikely to have the light dimmed by a dropping battery voltage.

 

[ltcom]

I replaced the filament bulb in my masthead tricolour with a warm white LED, I think I got it from Boatlamps. The cut-off between sectors isn't quite as sharp as with the filament bulb with its single central filament. There are sectors of at most ten degrees where an intermediate colour is seen. this is from fairly close to and lower down. I think that viewed from a greater distance and nearer to horizontal there is even less apparent overlap. It doesn't bother me, especially as the lights are now brighter. I'd rather be sure of being seen than worry about the last degree of cut-off, especially as with the LED I'm unlikely to have the light dimmed by a dropping battery voltage.

This is common sense and I would probably risk it too because the benefits outweigh the far more unlikely eventuality I postulated. Unfortunately, we live in a world where some insurance companies can be akin to thieves and jump on any excuse to not pay up.

 

[eddystone]

Yes I will check with GJW - if I need to replace the bow combined light anyway the extra cost of masthead tri-colour not life threatening. Getting the exact 225 degrees shouldn't be a problem with the stern light and steaming light.

 

[GHA]

Simple to put the light on a bit of A3 and aradite in a baffle should it be required for a very precise cutoff. Then you'll be way better than most.

I thought (and this needs verification) that to comply with the law (and therefore have insurance cover if there is an incident) only nav lights that are designed and made using led bulbs are kosha ? Retrofitted nav lights may not have correct sectors (I thought I read).

Nope, IRPCS just defines what the light coming out looks like, nothing to do with how the light is produce. Only takes a few seconds on google ...

9. Horizontal sectors

(a)

(i) In the forward direction, sidelights as fitted on the vessel shall show the minimum required intensities. The intensities shall decrease to reach practical cut-off between 1 degree and 3 degrees outside the prescribed sectors.

(ii) For sternlights and masthead lights and at 22.5 degrees abaft the beam for sidelights, the minimum required intensities shall be maintained over the arc of the horizon up to 5 degrees within the limits of the sectors prescribed in Rule 21. From 5 degrees within the prescribed sectors the intensity may decrease by 50 per cent up to the prescribed limits; it shall decrease steadily to reach practical cut-off at not more than 5 degrees outside the prescribed sectors.

 

[[163233]]

I thought (and this needs verification) that to comply with the law (and therefore have insurance cover if there is an incident) only nav lights that are designed and made using led bulbs are kosha ? Retrofitted nav lights may not have correct sectors (I thought I read).

So if I hit a ferry or something and the investigators examined my boat and found my lights were not kosha then my insurance would not pay out?

I assure you that if you collide with a ferry because your lights are a couple of degrees out of line then insurance will be the very least of your concerns.

 

[ltcom]

Simple to put the light on a bit of A3 and aradite in a baffle should it be required for a very precise cutoff. Then you'll be way better than most.



Nope, IRPCS just defines what the light coming out looks like, nothing to do with how the light is produce. Only takes a few seconds on google ...

From your link:
'The intensities shall decrease to reach practical cut-off between 1 degree and 3 degrees outside the prescribed sectors. ' Does that not mean what I seem to remember reading was correct (that led retrofits can often give 10 degrees or more instead of 3 degree cut off) ? I really think I read that the led retrofits do not give a 3 degree cutoff when fit into an older style housing. Your araldite baffle could fix it of course.

 

[jwilson]

Having looked at a couple of purpose-made LED bicolour and tricolour yacht fittings powered up in chandlers and at boat shows and I'm certain some of them would not meet the Colregs standard of 1 to 3 degrees cutoff. Lots of small vertical filament bulb bow bicolours as fitted by manufacturers when boats were new possibly don't quite meet the standard either. Also I know the cutoff between seeing the bicolour and stern light on many boats has a fair overlap, but at least you can see there are two lights, one red or green and one white.

Overall the extra brightness of an LED is a big advantage, if you choose to go that way despite doubts over cutoff.

 

[eddystone]

I got a response from GJW. Basically they have heard of issue but if you fit led bulbs and the insured person is satisfied can see sectors clearly that’s OK.
with them.

 

[rogerthebodger]

In the days of oil navigation lamps a sector board would be fitted to the oi lights to ensure the sector angles .

If any one is concerned when fitting LED bulbs in nav lights designed for incandescent bulbs should fit light sector boards or just glue plastic dividers onto the nav light lens.

 

[ash12]

I seem to remember on a Fairline Turbo 36 you could see either side lights that were on the side window pillar through the front window if you were at certain angles.

 

[tross]

Can we put this into some kind of prospective please.
Unless you are motoring on an absolute flat calm maintaing a fixed course, any wave movent hitting the bow will cause a yaw of over 10 degress - so who is going to notice your cut-off in wrong.

I am more worried about the yacht that motored into Lymington on Sunday night with tri colour lights on, and bow lights and stern light on but no steaming light !!

And we are worrring about degrees of cut-off?

 

[rogerthebodger]

What worries me are the ships out there when there is only one junior on watch and he is asleep while on watch.

Several times I have radioed a ship to find out their intentions only to have a very sleepy watch to answer and not know you are there

 

[Graham376]

Although all our below deck and anchor lights are leds, I've not bothered with nav lights. If the lower ones are on so is the engine, if the masthead tricolour in use then only 2 amps draw for a few hours.