Nav Lights and collision regs

My goodness what a mixed bag.
FYI I did know the regs but given the situation re lights on the boat required clarification. Seems Rogue Moody 44 Malta was on my wavelength.
It seems my options are turn all round white on but disable stern light or retro fit mast head white at spreaders.
Thanks for the interest shown but some of the postings reveal the complete disregard for collision regs, scary to think these people may be afloat!
 
So let me get this right then...What you seem to be saying is I should stop using my orange rotating beacon and pretending to be a Hovercraft. Works wonders in the Solent /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

On my under 7 metre yacht I am only obliged to show a 360 masthead white. Its not exactly a recipe for clarity is it /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Even the frowned upon tricolour would surely be an improvement on that.

Tim
 
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How on earth do you expect a watch keeper to know what action to take if you are showing the wrong lights?
FFS
RED is port
Green is Something
White with those is steaming
AND THEY ARE CLOSING ON YOU
DO SOMETHING suggest go right

Whereas single white:
stern or anchor.
AVOID
THe OP was asking for help re lights was trying to help him in his early days

[/ QUOTE ]Are you suggesting that a watchkeeper, eg on a tanker as suggested by ChannelYacht, should 'go right' if he sees a yacht with everything turned on ??

FOOL. Get off the water and back into the classroom. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
 
I agree that varying from the regulations is irresponsible and can be misleading (even the Navy's RIBs at Plymouth can get it wrong), while I consider the permitted use of an all round white light on under 7m craft ought really be avoided if you expect to be encountering other vessels. HOWEVER I would suggest in answer to the OP's original question the use of the stern light at the same time as the all round masthead instead of the correct forward steaming light (with of course the port/stbd lights) is unlikely to lead to cause anyone any problems. As previously suggested deck level lights are more likely to give the correct perspective and when in close proximity to other vessels I wouldn't trust an overtaking skipper to be scanning the heavens for my white masthead star.
 
Vic
I'm so glad that you're here to offer good and practical advice because I couldn't believe what I was just reading from other posters!

The regs are clear and precise as to what lights the original poster needs to display during a night passage?

Peter.
 
The lights that are cabin mounted are daft - I agree with that as sails can hide them. That is why on a previous boat of mine I moved them to pulpit so genny would not mask them.

Your point about waves and lights dipping is valid - BUT in error - myself and others here who also are ex Bridge Watchkeepers have stated clearly that deck level lights are preferred - why you as a yachtie consider that you know better than a bridge watchkeeper what HE can see amazes me.

If you think that I only motor around marina's - then I challenge you to jump on a flight out to Latvia and I will gladly show you how far of the mark you really are.

Personally I say - get lights fitted whatever size boat you are. Masthead is better than none. But use them wisely. take note of what experience says not only of own but also others who may have actual real experience to call on for answers.

The best tool in the end if you are really worried about being seen is as I said earlier - the bright light shone on sails - it's only there for a few sec's, but has an effect that is immediately recognisable - unlike "all lights on".

I'm sorry to say Orbister - but I cannot agree with you. Lifes a bitch in'it !! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Viewing from the low level of another yacht, mastheads can be easier to see than pulpit mounted lights, particularly in waves, but I guess we are less worried about being run down by small boats than big ships with their higher viewpoint.
But sometimes you want to be seen by smaller boats like fishing vessels.
An advantage of a masthead all round or tricolour is that it illuminates the windex. Much better than relying on the instruments. Also some boats I have sailed on have too much stray light from the bow bicolour coming back at the helmsman reflecting off shiny metal or even the jib. This can really limit your vision of distant lights.
One of my pet hates is nasty ensigns on sticks that flap over the sternlight, you see this alarmingly often.
Best that we stick within the rules if we expect others to take the rules seriously and don't want attention from 'authorites'.
 
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Vic
I'm so glad that you're here

[/ QUOTE ] Thanks. Don't understand all the arguments going on either but respect what experienced mariners say about the visibility of high level lights against a background of shore lights.
Fit all the lights and use the most appropriate legal combination is my belief. Mine are switched so that only legal combinations can be displayed.

Nobody seems to have noticed my diagram so here it is again, (but for the pedants I know it does not include the option of a single all-round white for vessels < 7m and < 7 kn)


Navigationlights.jpg
 
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Hmm. I have feeling that some of the anguished are terribly proud of showing the right lights as they motor slowly around the marina.

[/ QUOTE ]Thats incredibly insulting.

Many of the posters who have responded with critical comment to your suggestion, I know personally, and most of them, me included, have many thousands of miles under their belts..... how many night hours have you logged this year so far?... i'm over I would guess 30hrs myself since March.....

The posters above that seem to realise just how important the correct lights are, are then ones i'd trust to sail my own boat at night.

Its nothing to do with 'petty rule following'... i'm the last one to worry about flag ettiquette, etc etc... but the correct lights at night are essential for the correct decision making of those around you while at sea.

Lets pick one of your comments in particular...

"just how visible do you think a leeward deck light is on a yacht: twelve inches above water level, pointed down at thirty degrees and hiding behind the genoa?
"
Well, for one, its against a dark backdrop, the water, rather than against a sky.... two, it isn't moving quite so violently, and changing its aspect.... three, its what every bridge officer i've ever met has recommended.... four, if its hiding behind a genoa, then change your light config as its not in the correct place.... five, what kind of freeboard do you have if your light is 12" above the water?

Sorry, but you are just plain wrong..... if you want to be seen, there are smarter and safer ways of doing it.
 
Just to be contrary, as an ex bridge officer, (going back 25 years), I cant recall ever having a problem with yachts showing a tricolour versus yachts showing deck lights and stern light, and there were lots of yachts up the East Coast of the States, and in The Channel.

In fact, I think yachts with tricolours were quite distinctive - but each to his own.

I think the bottom line is that you should show legal lights, whatever they are and, if you dont have them, (e.g. they have failed), a bright white light is better than nothing, as is an all round white.

Cheers

Richard
 
The part where deck level lights are useful are going into harbour with a backdrop of other lights, and at relatively close quarters when you don't usually include up in your scan of the area! A masthead tricolour in these circumstances is often harder to spot.

Is this also true from the bridge of a ship or do the extra height make it ok?
 
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The part where deck level lights are useful are going into harbour with a backdrop of other lights, and at relatively close quarters when you don't usually include up in your scan of the area! A masthead tricolour in these circumstances is often harder to spot.

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Deck lights may suit some situations, and masthead others, so I'll counter that by saying that if you encounter a big ship, its' lowest lights may be way higher than the highest mast of any leisure sailing vessel. It's possible that in some areas, you may be concentrating at higher levels.

Having said that... if you are in an area where you are expecting close quarters with big ships, (like a port), you will likely be motoring and have decklights, (as well as your all round white /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif )

The rules are what they are and we can discuss which level of light is better till the cows come home. In real life you have to be prepared for all eventualities in terms of keeping a lookout, and you should show what you think is the best within the rules.
 
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The flipside of showing all you've got, of course, is that you can't then expect the Other Guy to know what you're doing, so you have to keep out of their way. But then, that's what any sensible yachtsman does at night anyway.


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No it's not. I understand from Merchant shipping skippers who frequent this forum, is that they wish that yachts would be more predictable, and HOLD their course if they are stand on vessel. They find it immensely confusing that some give way and some hold their course. So IMHO you should not give way. I never ever have had to give way when stand on in the shipping channels. Try it - But don't blame me if you don't make it - but then of course we will never know!!!
 
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Get out of the classroom and realise how the real world works.
Fool

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Well, I am not sure what world you occupy - La La Land? Just what is your reasoning behind the suggestion that confusing the watch keeper of another boat is the the correct way to do things? We would love to understand your point of view.

No insult to accompany this - as you should not do that on this forum please.
 
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Stupid reply.
Get out of the classroom and realise how the real world works.
Fool.
If the poster asked the question then he obviously didn't know the regs.
Better to be seen than sunk

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I suggest the poster learns the regs - especially the lights as they are dead simple - as Vic has demonstrated. THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR IGNORANCE.
 
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Vic
I'm so glad that you're here to offer good and practical advice because I couldn't believe what I was just reading from other posters!

The regs are clear and precise as to what lights the original poster needs to display during a night passage?

Peter.

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Here Here - Most replies from Vic are to the point and simple.....

I have never read such a load of b......
 
Richard
Sorry ~ I meant all the "side issue merchants" that want to deflect the post into the relms of fantasy, rather than what the Col Regs actually require?

The original poster asked a ligitimate question and was advised by various members to consult the Col Regs ~ quite rightly so.

This is not "rocket science" he (the original poster) has a boat of X length and needs to know what lights/signals he needs to display at night ~ the Col Regs will tell him that?

Peter.
 
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