Nav. Light failure. What would you do ?

You actually fail Day Skippers? I thought they got it automatically by paying for the course.[/QUOTE]

In nearly 5 years failed just 2. 1 for putting me aground on the Brambles and 1 because no matter how hard he tried he could not get the hang of helming. i mean he was really bad ! :) ( my criteria for passing would be 'would I trust this person to take my boat from the Hamble to Cowes in good weather in daylight' ).

Chris
 
Going back to my post and the ensuing debate between Observer and bbg. I don't see how following my priorities prevents one from keeping a good lookout. Nobody would set up or use lights which blinded them for more than a few seconds. If you are unlit a fast moving vessel that hasn't seen you cannot be expected to go around you. In a slow moving craft your efforts to get out of the way may be irrelevant because to a fast boat, you are effectively stationary. So if you see me using the wrong lights, as I did when approaching St Tropez one night (resulting in a one ship shining a search light to find out what I was and which way I was going) tut tut all you like, I'm just glad you saw me.
 
Well funny we should be talking about this because tonight that very thing happened to me.

If i'm honest it was my own fault as i've only recently bought her and after chatting to the previous owner made the assumption the nav lights worked.

Well tonight, they didn't. I wasn't planning to be out after dark but as with most plans, that's exactly what happened.

It was tough keeping a super sharp lookout as in the Blackwater there are lots of riverside lights which can fool the eye. Not to mention mooring/ speed bouys etc.

The only evasive move I did was when I noticed another Yacht under power a short distance behind me, I dropped back (and well to one side) and then dropped in behind the Yacht (a safe distance back) so as not to rely on them having seen me.

Picking my way through the moored boats and picking up my 'Swing' was a good test of concentration.

A lesson learnt methinks.
 
oldfatgit said:
Going back to my post and the ensuing debate between Observer and bbg. I don't see how following my priorities prevents one from keeping a good lookout. Nobody would set up or use lights which blinded them for more than a few seconds. If you are unlit a fast moving vessel that hasn't seen you cannot be expected to go around you. In a slow moving craft your efforts to get out of the way may be irrelevant because to a fast boat, you are effectively stationary. So if you see me using the wrong lights, as I did when approaching St Tropez one night (resulting in a one ship shining a search light to find out what I was and which way I was going) tut tut all you like, I'm just glad you saw me.
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You may think I'm splitting hairs but I think it's really important, when thinking about issues where there are competing arguments, to start from the right place. You said that "Be seen" is #1 priority. I think that's quite wrong. My conclusion, based on what I think is irrefutable logic, is that "see and avoid" must be #1. Simple illustration - you are walking along a narrrow country road on a dark night. You are carrying a torch, which is not switched on. Unknown to you, the lamp is not screwed in tight so it won't work without a little atttention. A vehicle, moving fast, appears from round a bend. What's your #1 priority? To fix the torch or to get off the road onto the verge?

WRT
In a slow moving craft your efforts to get out of the way may be irrelevant because to a fast boat, you are effectively stationary.
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In that case "see and avoid" has effectively broken down so "be seen" becomes the next priority (but it doesn't start as #1).

As far as using the wrong lights is concerned, it's a judgement call whether the risk of incorrect identification by another vessel, that may result in an unpredicted avoidance manoeuvre, is more or less than the risk of not being seen at all. My point there is simply that it is necessary to recognise that there is a choice of risk and that the latter is not always or automatically greater than the former.
 
oldfatgit said:
Priority 1 - Be seen.
Priority 2 - Be recognised.
Priority 3 - Be identified.
Click to expand...
This forum has been going down hill for a year or two and this thread confirms it.

Priority 0 = Observe.

Therefore putting the deck light on is a bad idea because it will create a large blind spot forward, particularly if there is any moisture hanging in the night air. The risk of collision 1/4 of a mile from the Portsmouth entrance is low due to all the shore lights illuminating the scene. I would just put the masthead tri on, its a no brainer, why all the debate?
 
Nav light failure......

I had almost the exact thing happen to me in the Portsmouth Harbour entrance aboard an old Falmouth Pilot Cutter returning to moorings off Wicor. The engine blipped and all lights went out,with no spare fuse available.We ended up making a port and starboard light using a pair of torches using a coloured apron, red pattern for port and greenish pattern for the starboard ,tied to the shrouds. We got just abeam of the Ammunition loading area when the MOD police patrol came up to us asking if we were OK,then escorted us to our mooring at Wicor.Having got the tide wrong on Springs ebb we were stuck aboard until 2 am,waiting for enough water to get ashore in our inflatable across the mud flats. No mobile phones then so in trouble when I got home!

ianat182
 
blackdogsailing said:
1 for putting me aground on the Brambles
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Could you explain more please? Having just done DS (and passed i hasten to add), i had pretty much come to the conclusion that the only way to fail was to be be repeatedly reckless, willfully dangerous, or have absolutely no idea how a boat worked. Without knowing the circumstances, it sounds like it could have been an innocent math’s error, common amongst DSs im sure.
Matt
 
Humm... I suspect that we are actually vehemently agreeing. I cannot envisage making way during the day or at night without being able to keep a good lookout, so perhaps the zeroth law is keep a good look out which, to me, is a blinding glimpse of the blatantly obvious. On the 2 occasions, however, I have resorted to 5 blasts on the air horn, it was to warn large and fast motor cruisers to alter course to avoid us. Both were on fine bright sunny days when they were not paying attention to their course, leaving it to the auto pilot me thinks. Point is on both occasions it did not matter a fig what I did, I was moving so slow compared to their 25 - 30 kts that I needed them to steer around me. Now at night, if you are not seen, then how can you expect any fast vessel to steer around you? Granted, motor cruisers are rarer at night, but the fast cat from Ryde is on the move. The ferries to Wooten Creek don't hang around either and all of them may go around you if they see you. If they don't know you are there then how can one expect them to avoid you. (All right they might use their radar but do you trust that?). My view remains, Be Seen, Be Recognised, Be Identified so the fast movers can go around you; after all what are white flares for? But, you must keep a good look out to use a white flare, so obviously don't blind yourself with your own lights. However, if all I had was a large illuminated santa even in July I would set it up, so I could be seen.
 
Jonjo
completely agree. Piles of nonsense about colregs and bureaucracy without common sense.

Put on the tricolour, off with everything else to preserve night vision.

Glad I started sailing many decades ago before the "RYA Way" was deedmed to be the only safe way. The modern yachttie appears to be hunched over plotter and radar screens, checking speed to the 2nd decimal place, wind direction to the degree, constantly listening to the vhf (when not calling the coastguard for a radio check), cross referring to their AIS and worrying about being caught for a COLREGS or radio license infraction.

Ironically (and contradicting my RYA comment) most yachtmaster examiners want to see us using our eyes and ears and commonsense and showing a level of self sufficiency and not just sailing by numbers.
 
Having been in exactly that situation, crossing Pompey, tricolour only, we made sure the

HOVERCRAFT could see us with a big torch. It worked. He missed us.

I presume our feeble tricolour was lost in the lights of Pompey.

memo.

Must fit more nav lights.........
 
WindermereColvic said:
Could you explain more please? Having just done DS (and passed i hasten to add), i had pretty much come to the conclusion that the only way to fail was to be be repeatedly reckless, willfully dangerous, or have absolutely no idea how a boat worked. Without knowing the circumstances, it sounds like it could have been an innocent math’s error, common amongst DSs im sure.
Matt
Click to expand...

Hi Matt, PM sent as this is a major Fred Drift, worthy of a new one methinks !:)
 
Be seen is safer than not being seen.

Stick on what you have and just stay clear of everything ... have good flashlight handy to shine on sails ....

VHF call to QHM advising him you have lights problem ... he'll probably go back to sleep having told a minion to keep an eye out on another plonker on a boat ! ;););););););););););)

No offence meant ... just joking !
 
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