Nav. Light failure. What would you do ?

[bbg]

Thanks for confirming my view on this. Colregs don't prohibit the showing of decklights (by this I mean spreader mounted lights that illuminate the deck) or cabin lights. Or shining a light on the main.

As for it being "an under-equipped training yacht" - whether or not it is a training yacht is irrelevant. I dont think (there I go again) the Colregs make a distinction between training yachts or other vessels. So if that yacht is "under-equipped" because it doesn't have a backup system, so is any yacht that sails at night. Do you have a backup system, AWOL?

I have to say I find it really surprising that so many people seem to be so worked up about showing the absolutely correct lights, after a failure, for a period of about 5 minutes - to the extent of hanging someone over the pulpit, and rigging up Heath Robinson arrangements. My view is: do the best you can, make sure you're seen, and fix it in the morning.

 

[Gwylan]

Put the motoring set on or get the emergency set [Plastimo] out of the locker but radio QHM anyway and proceed

 

[alan17]

I would switch on my 2nd set of lights :smug:

Being equally smug I would use my emergency nav lights powered by a small torch battery contained in the casing.

 

[awol]

Do you have a backup system, AWOL?

Yes, I have back-up D-cell powered lights with aluminium mask/holders that clip onto the pull/pushpit (+ spare batteries) - not very bright but enough to get me through a night if I have to (and available through all good chandlers). I do sail at night, - just spent a straight 44 hours bringing the boat back from Clachnaharry - and regard a power failure as a possibility to be catered for. The original poster's scenario was a training yacht with him as skipper - surely such a vessel should have been coded and have had back-up lights to comply.
I carry a pile of stuff "just in case" but despite my endeavours I am sure I will continue to find situations where I haven't got a back-up plan - this isn't one of them.

 

[bedouin]

Yes, I have back-up D-cell powered lights with aluminium mask/holders that clip onto the pull/pushpit (+ spare batteries) - not very bright but enough to get me through a night if I have to (and available through all good chandlers). I do sail at night, - just spent a straight 44 hours bringing the boat back from Clachnaharry - and regard a power failure as a possibility to be catered for. The original poster's scenario was a training yacht with him as skipper - surely such a vessel should have been coded and have had back-up lights to comply.

I've got those, but I wonder how useful they really are. What is the visibility of them and how long do the batteries last?

A standard incandescent nav bulb is 10W. A normal D cell has a capacity probably about 4Ah - so it would power a 10W bulb for about 45mins. So either the lamp is so dim as to be useless or it eats batteries so fast as to be useless. In either case....

 

[Krusty]

If the only reason you're carrying two torches and a couple of pieces of spinnaker cloth is for use as emergency nav lights, wouldn't it just make more sense to buy a set of battery powered emergency nav lights?
Edit - your torches won't give the correct field of view. Purpose built emergency nav lights will.

Agreed, but purpose-made lights take up as much precious storage space as the two torches I would carry anyway, for all the usual reasons.
The field of view problem can be addressed by using the red or green torch from the cockpit, in the direction of any relevent vessel.
I installed separate pulpit lights so that one bulb failure does not result in a double problem. I would not tolerate a bicolour lantern.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

I have to say I find it really surprising that so many people seem to be so worked up about showing the absolutely correct lights, after a failure, for a period of about 5 minutes - to the extent of hanging someone over the pulpit, and rigging up Heath Robinson arrangements.

It's madness but I'm not surprised, the web attracts some weird people.

For what it's worth I think every word you've written on this thread is spot on.

Everyone agrees that incorrectly lit boats are commonplace yet they never seem to get hit which suggests that it's possible to avoid lights, even if they aren't the correct lights!

 

[Alfie168]

Agree with bbg. Its just common sense.

For emergency battery lights these are worth a look

http://www.navisafe.no/en/index.html


Tim

 

[blackdogsailing]

Basically I think the OP should consider his responsibilities as a skipper of an under-equipped training yacht i.e. with no back-up nav lights and god knows what else lacking.

God may well know but as far as I was aware the boat had everything it was required to have. It was a sailing school boat, perhaps you are advocating I should have bought a set out of my own money ? ( btw, I always carry a spare emergency set on my own boat ). Your'e not one of the people I failed at Day Skipper are you ?

Chris

 

[Black Sheep]

I believe that John Walker, while crossing to Flushing in Goblin, shone a torch through a red dinner plate as a makeshift port hand nav light.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

I believe that John Walker, while crossing to Flushing in Goblin, shone a torch through a red dinner plate as a makeshift port hand nav light.

Moitessier on principle did not light his boat at night. He felt it much better for ships not to see him since if they didn't see him they couldn't take unpredictable avoiding action. In contrast something as nimble as a yacht could easiliy nip out of the way of a ship on a steady course.

 

[mustntgrumble]

Anchor

All-round white

Await daylight

 

[blackdogsailing]

I believe that John Walker, while crossing to Flushing in Goblin, shone a torch through a red dinner plate as a makeshift port hand nav light.

Woolworth plate iirc ! 'Oh never mind the pork pie', I digress....

At the time I carried on as I was but also shone a torch on the mainsail. I do not think switching on the tricolour is the best answer. All I was doing was exaggerating the length of my boat a bit. Hey, it sometimes works in marinas !

Chris

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

Anchor

All-round white

Await daylight

Create a hazard a quarter of a mile off P'mth Harbour's busy entrance merely to obey the letter of the col regs?

I think the RYA have a lot to answer for. The rise of expensive training has squeezed the common sense out of sailing and created a generation of sailors who would far rather do things 'correctly' than effectively or safely.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

I do not think switching on the tricolour is the best answer.

I don't think what you did was wrong, but what's wrong with the tricolour? It indicates the orientation of the boat and the fact that it's under way.

 

[sighmoon]

This thread is fascinating. What it goes to show is that you can never assume anybody else is going to do anything that makes any sense at all; be it your own skipper, or the one in charge of the lights in the dark you're approaching.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

What it goes to show is that you can never assume anybody else is going to do anything that makes any sense at all; be it your own skipper, or the one in charge of the lights in the dark you're approaching.

Well there's your first mistake. Lights are primarily telling you "there's something here that you don't want to hit". You shouldn't be approaching them you should be avoiding them! HTH.

 

[fireball]

But to avoid the lights it helps if you can tell what it is you're supposed to be avoiding ....
which is why I would put the closest option I have to what I should be showing and proceed with a little more caution.

you seem to think 1/4 mile outside portsmouth makes little difference, but it wasn't easy to spot what the boat was who was showing completely the wrong lights and could've caused some skippers to take incorrect avoiding action

 

[blackdogsailing]

I don't think what you did was wrong, but what's wrong with the tricolour? It indicates the orientation of the boat and the fact that it's under way.

I can see both arguments. By showing the tricolour you are in fact telling people you are sailing when you are not. it's interesting because most of the above arguments were put forward by a group of us a few days later, including Penny Hare and James Stevens. We couldn't agree then either !

Chris

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

But to avoid the lights it helps if you can tell what it is you're supposed to be avoiding ....

Does it? Probably 30 per cent of vessels show the wrong lights or dayshapes. I don't hit them. Do you? Who does? It never seens to happen.

you seem to think 1/4 mile outside portsmouth makes little difference

It makes a big difference. It means the small risk of distraction of sorting the problem out totally outweighs the tiny risk of having a light out. Plus there's tons of light around there, it's practically street lit.

but it wasn't easy to spot what the boat was who was showing completely the wrong lights

Yet you didn't hit him.

and could've caused some skippers to take incorrect avoiding action

The sort of helmsmen who would hit a boat because it was showing the wrong lights would probably be hitting stuff all over the place anyway. How many boats have you hit in your sailing career becuase they were showing the wrong lights or dayshapes?