Nautical Terminology

[Simondjuk]

Is the possession and use of a broad vocabulary considered pretentious only in yachting circles, or in general these days?

 

[alan_d]

Tis not surprising then that some Fishermen and Coastal Ship Officers look upon some yachtsmen with a certain distaste and lack of acumen

Either you are using "acumen" to mean something different from its dictionary definition or some words have dropped out of your post.

 

[Serin]

>And talking of "parking" which was criticised in the other thread, surely that is just a facetious reaction to the pomposity of some nautical terminology. Like "string".

Jane used to drive the boat and we parked it in marinas, otherwise we used all the nautical terms

I'm curious. Why are the terms referring to where you might anchor, moor or berth a boat somehow "pompous" when other nautical terminology is not?

It's a striking characteristic of this thread that people who prefer to use nautical terminology are happy to make their arguments without denigrating those who do not. Nobody, as far as I can see, has called those posters ignorant or stupid or sneered at them (Jumbleduck's habitual reductio ad absurdum being purely hypothetical) The worst they have been called is "landlubbers". On the other hand, those who decry the use of nautical terminology are happy to toss about terms like "pomposity", "snobbishness", "playing Hornblower" etc. I've always been interested in the ideas, attitudes and motivations people attribute to others, and especially others about whom they know little or nothing. It doesn't say anything about the others, but it does say something about them.

 

[theoldsalt]

Either you are using "acumen" to mean something different from its dictionary definition or some words have dropped out of your post.

Can you please explain the problem with Capt Popeye's post.

(Acumen meaning - skill in making correct decisions and judgments)

 

[25931]

The purpose of language being communication it is easier (and more sensible) to do so without jargon when talking to a layman but perfectly reasonable to speak to anyone who uses the same terminology.

 

[johnalison]

The purpose of language being communication it is easier (and more sensible) to do so without jargon when talking to a layman but perfectly reasonable to speak to anyone who uses the same terminology.

That may seem obvious to many of us, but others wish to employ such terms as "the bit of string that pulls up the big sail that runs up the mast", or "the powder room". If they want to make themselves look a bit silly, that is their privilege.

 

[dom]

That may seem obvious to many of us, but others wish to employ such terms as "the bit of string that pulls up the big sail that runs up the mast", or "the powder room". If they want to make themselves look a bit silly, that is their privilege.

Being serious for a moment I tend to refer to both the name and colour for added clarity. To aid this my boat has a different colour for each rope in a vaguely colour schemed way; e.g. Spi #1: Yellow, Spi #2: Orange, Spi Uphaul: Yellow flecked, Spi Downhauls: Red, Genny Halyard: Blue, Inner Jib: Turquoise, Genny Track: Light blue and so on.

As a matter of interest does anyone know a nautical expression for the concept:

"Each line has Two F****** Ends -- one for Winching and one for Watching!!!"

 

[doris]

Either you are using "acumen" to mean something different from its dictionary definition or some words have dropped out of your post.

?????????????????
Acumen: Keen insight or discernment. Concise Oxford Dictionary
Seems appropriate to me.

 

[prv]

?????????????????
Acumen: Keen insight or discernment. Concise Oxford Dictionary
Seems appropriate to me.

The word's fine, but I don't think he meant to write that the ship officers are the ones lacking it.

(I wouldn't normally nitpick such things, but since it's being brought up specifically...)

Pete

 

[dunedin]

Some here seem to equate usage of nautical language with nautical experience. Not sure this is a good link.

IMHO actions speak louder than words. And typically it is the people who say least when underway who are the most experienced. The skipper who arrives at a crowded marina and/or anchorage and does a perfect parking in tricky conditions in total calm and virtual silence is the one I admire. Often a nod or quiet "OK now" is better than lots of words.

 

[RichardS]

Ahh, thank you doris, good to see that there are some real sailors around these ere parts that are aware of the difficulties arising from some half hearted and land lubbers ere

Tis not surprising then that some Fishermen and Coastal Ship Officers look upon some yachtsmen with a certain distaste and lack of acumen

The word's fine, but I don't think he meant to write that the ship officers are the ones lacking it.

(I wouldn't normally nitpick such things, but since it's being brought up specifically...)

Pete

That's interesting Pete and perhaps tells us something about language and meaning, which is exactly what this thread is about.

I thought exactly the same as you and started to type an almost identical post as yours ..... but then I read Popeye's post again (several times!) and came to the conclusion that he did mean that the Ships Officers are displaying both distaste and a lack of acumen.

I deleted my post before adding it.

Try reading it again a few times and perhaps see what I mean.

Richard

 

[JumbleDuck]

Is the possession and use of a broad vocabulary considered pretentious only in yachting circles, or in general these days?

It all depends on how the vocabulary is being used. If the aim is improve clarity of communication by choosing accurate and appropriate terms which will be easily understood then it is not pretentious. If the aim is to bamboozle the listener and show off a knowledge of technical terms to the detriment of efficient communication then it is pretenti

I'm curious. Why are the terms referring to where you might anchor, moor or berth a boat somehow "pompous" when other nautical terminology is not?

It's a striking characteristic of this thread that people who prefer to use nautical terminology are happy to make their arguments without denigrating those who do not. Nobody, as far as I can see, has called those posters ignorant or stupid or sneered at them (Jumbleduck's habitual reductio ad absurdum being purely hypothetical) The worst they have been called is "landlubbers".

Who was it described the use of simple language to assist newcomers to sailing as "nursery english"? That's a pretty sneering sort of attitude, I think.

 

[Serin]

Who was it described the use of simple language to assist newcomers to sailing as "nursery english"? That's a pretty sneering sort of attitude, I think.

A lot of people on the internet fail to make the distinction between comments on the content of posts, which are public and speak for themselves, and assumptions about the character or attitudes of the posters, which, unless they are specifically stated, are generally based on nothing at all except the attitudes of the person making the assumption.

You are not alone.

 

[NormanS]

I see nothing wrong with using the correct terminology in the marine environment. After all, if you were dealing with engines, you would refer to pistons, crankshafts etc, and nobody would think it pretentious.

 

[JumbleDuck]

A lot of people on the internet fail to make the distinction between comments on the content of posts, which are public and speak for themselves, and assumptions about the character or attitudes of the posters, which, unless they are specifically stated, are generally based on nothing at all except the attitudes of the person making the assumption..

If someone makes a patronising and sneering post then it seems reasonable to assume that it was meant in a patronising and sneering way and that the poster has - at least sometimes - a patronising and sneering personality, no?

 

[johnalison]

To my mind, there are two groups of nautical terms. There are those which must be learned, such as Jib, Winch, Port and Starboard, and on the other hand, there are those terms which we choose to use, largely for sentimental reasons. Instead of Cabin Sole, Bulkhead, or Galley, little confusion would result if someone said Floor, Wall or Kitchen, but what a dull world we would be living in if only lay terms were used.

I have no doubt that if I are to take up fishing, say, I would find much of the nomenclature confusing, but I don't feel that my ignorance marks me out as an outsider so much a my reluctance to sit on a riverbank or rolling boat for hours at a time does.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I see nothing wrong with using the correct terminology in the marine environment. After all, if you were dealing with engines, you would refer to pistons, crankshafts etc, and nobody would think it pretentious.

Nobody has argued to the contrary. The only real passion seems to come from those who strongly object to the use of non-technical language when talking to non-technical people. In my experience, great expertise almost always goes with an ability to explain in layman's terms. Conversely, I strongly suspect that hostility to simplified expression betrays a lack of knowledge in depth and a desire to blind with jargon. See also: anyone who works in HR (not H-R!)

 

[JumbleDuck]

To my mind, there are two groups of nautical terms. There are those which must be learned, such as Jib, Winch, Port and Starboard, and on the other hand, there are those terms which we choose to use, largely for sentimental reasons. Instead of Cabin Sole, Bulkhead, or Galley, little confusion would result if someone said Floor, Wall or Kitchen, but what a dull world we would be living in if only lay terms were used.

I could not agree with you more. What's sad, though, is that some people seem to care so very, very much about the terminology used by others.

 

[Serin]

If someone makes a patronising and sneering post then it seems reasonable to assume that it was meant in a patronising and sneering way and that the poster has - at least sometimes - a patronising and sneering personality, no?

Nope

There may be other aspects of the dynamics of internet communication that you aren't taking into account and that underlie the fallacy I have mentioned

 

[johnalison]

Nobody has argued to the contrary. The only real passion seems to come from those who strongly object to the use of non-technical language when talking to non-technical people. In my experience, great expertise almost always goes with an ability to explain in layman's terms. Conversely, I strongly suspect that hostility to simplified expression betrays a lack of knowledge in depth and a desire to blind with jargon. See also: anyone who works in HR (not H-R!)

There is no mention in the OP of the need to address beginners, and there has been a group who seem to support the idea of a simplified vocabulary at sea generally. When dealing with non-sailors on my boat, I usually limit myself to teaching them a few important words that actually matter. The Boom is one example, because they need to know to keep clear of it, and I may need to refer to it with some urgency (though this hasn't happened yet). With all other terms, and usually with little time, anything goes. A competent skipper is not going to put him or herself in a position where urgent or confusing instructions need to be given to a non-sailor when the boat or its crew' safety are at risk, surely.