NASA tri/anchor light

[Graham_Wright]

My mast has just been restepped.

The Nasa masthead fitting had not been replaced but left dangling on its connecting wire.

Last weekend, the weather was wild and, for two days, the poor unit was swinging about banging into the mast.

I will only climb the mast with SWMBO's assistance.

After refitting yesterday, I was pleasantly surprised to find that it worked perfectly.

Top marks Nasa!

 

[captainboo]

On mine (about 6 years old) every other led in the tricolour was only glowing dimly. Took it apart and found I could get them all working by shorting out one particular green led. This one was dragging all the others in that half down. Phoned NASA and for the price of an SAE they sent me a couple of replacements. Replaced the dodgy one to then find it was working but with a slight flicker on the same group. turns out another green one was also on its way out so replaced with the extra spare and now good as new. Surprised that the LED's have failed as NASA said they have not heard of any problems.

Very helpful to deal with however.

 

[Praxinoscope]

All the NASA kit I have had over the years has worked well, currently have NASA AIS engine connected to a Garmin chart plotter, NASA Navtex, a NASA wireless wind speed/direction and the NASA Tri/ All round white.
I do however wish they would improve the quality of their user installation/manuals, it would not be the first time I have sat there scratching my head working out exactly what the instructions are telling me.

 

[Graham_Wright]

All the NASA kit I have had over the years has worked well, currently have NASA AIS engine connected to a Garmin chart plotter, NASA Navtex, a NASA wireless wind speed/direction and the NASA Tri/ All round white.
I do however wish they would improve the quality of their user installation/manuals, it would not be the first time I have sat there scratching my head working out exactly what the instructions are telling me.

Yes - they are very amateurish.

I ordered a spare wind cup assembly as mine was smashed. The words "red vane", "three wire" and "five wire" are self contradictory.

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

I am becoming wary of LEDs in nav lights, as my experience of them in a domestic setting has not been good; I had LED downlighters installed during a kitchen refurbishment about seven years ago, and over the last couple of years found them to be increasingly dim. When I replaced the twelve bulbs I could not believe the transformation. The LED outdoor security lights I fitted to replace the long-lasting but expensive to run halogen ones only last about eighteen months, as the individual LEDs fail in groups.
I wonder if LEDs in navigation lights lose their intensity over time, or have individual ones fail, allowing the effective range of these lights to reduce to a dangerous level?

 

[pandos]

I am becoming wary of LEDs in nav lights, as my experience of them in a domestic setting has not been good; I had LED downlighters installed during a kitchen refurbishment about seven years ago, and over the last couple of years found them to be increasingly dim. When I replaced the twelve bulbs I could not believe the transformation. The LED outdoor security lights I fitted to replace the long-lasting but expensive to run halogen ones only last about eighteen months, as the individual LEDs fail in groups.
I wonder if LEDs in navigation lights lose their intensity over time, or have individual ones fail, allowing the effective range of these lights to reduce to a dangerous level?

I was thinking the same thing. My office has 6 led down lights, they are only 6 months old and lately one has began to flicker. In the kitchen one out of nine has died.
I console myself by thinking about the few hours my nav lights are used compared to the domestic situation and also the 240v AC /12v DC factor

 

[fredrussell]

I am becoming wary of LEDs in nav lights, as my experience of them in a domestic setting has not been good; I had LED downlighters installed during a kitchen refurbishment about seven years ago, and over the last couple of years found them to be increasingly dim. When I replaced the twelve bulbs I could not believe the transformation. The LED outdoor security lights I fitted to replace the long-lasting but expensive to run halogen ones only last about eighteen months, as the individual LEDs fail in groups.
I wonder if LEDs in navigation lights lose their intensity over time, or have individual ones fail, allowing the effective range of these lights to reduce to a dangerous level?

Agree with this. I’ve switched all interior lights on boat to LED, as it’s obviously not the end of the world if one of those packs up, but all my nav lights are old school incandescent jobs and as yet I have resisted replacing them. I figure they are a very simple thing, whereas an LED light involves circuitry.

 

[billyfish]

I too am having the mast down soon and intend to go through it all, standing rigging replacement and light replacement I'm hoping to change all to led...as I don't like my anchor light at the top of the mast, I will be taking it off, I use one at cabin height as your much better seen from that level, I was hoping to replace the all round white with a strobe for though dodgy moments ! Anyone know if there is a bulb replacement for that .? They make purpose built ones in the states but I don't see them here.

 

[doug748]

Agree with this. I’ve switched all interior lights on boat to LED, as it’s obviously not the end of the world if one of those packs up, but all my nav lights are old school incandescent jobs and as yet I have resisted replacing them. I figure they are a very simple thing, whereas an LED light involves circuitry.

Indeed I have had problems with purpose built LED mounted arrays and so have friends of mine with kit from different manufacturers. Many seem to fail well inside the advertised hours, this is a trivial matter with deck or cabin lights but a real pain and potentially dangerous, with masthead lights.

A standard bulb fitting (LED or conventional) is much cheaper, easier to asses and change. I wish I has stuck to that.

.

 

[Dipper]

The Nasa masthead fitting had not been replaced but left dangling on its connecting wire.

My NASA bracket broke during storage ashore over the winter 2019/20 and the tri/anchor light was left dangling by its cable all through lockdown. Eventually the cable broke but instead of falling to the ground it stayed in place because a spare mousing line had been tied to the bracket. I couldn't replace the bracket myself because it was held in place with torx screws and nuts and the light would also need rewiring. Riggers will no longer go up masts when boats are ashore. I did manage to retrieve the light but that was all. I unstepped the mast at lift out last month and even with good access, one screw is proving difficult to extract.

I agree that NASA are very helpful with spares and repairs but this bracket is pretty feeble. Although I have a new one, I might try and find something else that's suitable. It's not exactly designed for the light, you have to drill your own holes anyway.

 

[Graham_Wright]

I was hoping to replace the all round white with a strobe for though dodgy moments !

Are strobes legal?

Seems to me to be potentially capable of confusion with buoyage lights.

 

[kwb78]

I am becoming wary of LEDs in nav lights, as my experience of them in a domestic setting has not been good; I had LED downlighters installed during a kitchen refurbishment about seven years ago, and over the last couple of years found them to be increasingly dim. When I replaced the twelve bulbs I could not believe the transformation. The LED outdoor security lights I fitted to replace the long-lasting but expensive to run halogen ones only last about eighteen months, as the individual LEDs fail in groups.
I wonder if LEDs in navigation lights lose their intensity over time, or have individual ones fail, allowing the effective range of these lights to reduce to a dangerous level?

There are a few differences. Many of the failures of domestic lighting LEDs are because the power supply fails rather than the LEDs themselves. If it flickers and suddenly dies that’s likely the cause. LEDs running on a low voltage DC supply aren’t as likely to have this failure mode. If you want LED bulbs to last, buy a decent brand which has a good quality power supply.

The reduced output over time for bright white LEDs is because the LED isn’t actually white. The semiconductor LED portion usually outputs blue light, which excites a mix of phosphors which re-emit a mix of colours to approximate white light. It is the phosphor which degrades over time, making it less effective. This is similar to how old CRT monitors and TVs would suffer burn in if showing the same image continuously.

As for how that impacts the reliability of navigation lights, it depends on which technology they use. Red and Green LEDs are monochromatic and usually emit light directly from the semiconductor without using phosphor. There are some white LEDs that also do this. These should all retain their brightness over time. The NASA anchor/tricolour lamp uses this type of LED from memory so should last well.

The type of LED used for illumination is more likely to use phosphor to get sufficient light output in a range of colours that is comfortable for the eye, so is more likely to have reduced output with age.

 

[[3889]]

Boat

Agree with this. I’ve switched all interior lights on boat to LED, as it’s obviously not the end of the world if one of those packs up, but all my nav lights are old school incandescent jobs and as yet I have resisted replacing them. I figure they are a very simple thing, whereas an LED light involves circuitry.

Boatlamps do an epoxy sealed version of their LED nav lights. I dropped one in the marina during fitting and recovered the bulb the next day. It continued working perfectly until I sold the boat. They do cost twice as much but are worth it IMO. Their non-waterproof bulbs are really not suitable for deck level lights on a yacht.

 

[[3889]]

Some people don't

Are strobes legal?

Seems to me to be potentially capable of confusion with buoyage lights.

Some people don't seem to worry about the effects of their 'bespoke' lighting configurations. I spent a very anxious half hour entering
L' Aber Wrach trying to identify two vertical fixed greens on the chart because a catamaran thought tricolour + deck lights was a good idea.

 

[pandos]

Boat


Boatlamps do an epoxy sealed version of their LED nav lights. I dropped one in the marina during fitting and recovered the bulb the next day. It continued working perfectly until I sold the boat. They do cost twice as much but are worth it IMO. Their non-waterproof bulbs are really not suitable for deck level lights on a yacht.

I have some boat lamps' unsealed ones at deck level....I wonder if I coated them in epoxy!. Or would heat cause issues?

My mast head bulbs came with the fitting are also led but they are encased in what seems like silicone.

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

I too am having the mast down soon and intend to go through it all, standing rigging replacement and light replacement I'm hoping to change all to led...as I don't like my anchor light at the top of the mast, I will be taking it off, I use one at cabin height as your much better seen from that level, I was hoping to replace the all round white with a strobe for though dodgy moments ! Anyone know if there is a bulb replacement for that .? They make purpose built ones in the states but I don't see them here.

You are opening a Colregs can of worms wth this.?

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

My NASA bracket broke during storage ashore over the winter 2019/20 and the tri/anchor light was left dangling by its cable all through lockdown. Eventually the cable broke but instead of falling to the ground it stayed in place because a spare mousing line had been tied to the bracket. I couldn't replace the bracket myself because it was held in place with torx screws and nuts and the light would also need rewiring. Riggers will no longer go up masts when boats are ashore. I did manage to retrieve the light but that was all. I unstepped the mast at lift out last month and even with good access, one screw is proving difficult to extract.

I agree that NASA are very helpful with spares and repairs but this bracket is pretty feeble. Although I have a new one, I might try and find something else that's suitable. It's not exactly designed for the light, you have to drill your own holes anyway.

You can buy Torx drivers at your local tool shop. Toolstation probably has them.
Stubborn screws can usually be dealt with by using heat combined with impacts from a heavy hammer and perhaps some Plusgas. Always remember to slightly turn screws in the opposite direction before attempting to loosen them.

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

There are a few differences. Many of the failures of domestic lighting LEDs are because the power supply fails rather than the LEDs themselves. If it flickers and suddenly dies that’s likely the cause. LEDs running on a low voltage DC supply aren’t as likely to have this failure mode. If you want LED bulbs to last, buy a decent brand which has a good quality power supply.

The reduced output over time for bright white LEDs is because the LED isn’t actually white. The semiconductor LED portion usually outputs blue light, which excites a mix of phosphors which re-emit a mix of colours to approximate white light. It is the phosphor which degrades over time, making it less effective. This is similar to how old CRT monitors and TVs would suffer burn in if showing the same image continuously.

As for how that impacts the reliability of navigation lights, it depends on which technology they use. Red and Green LEDs are monochromatic and usually emit light directly from the semiconductor without using phosphor. There are some white LEDs that also do this. These should all retain their brightness over time. The NASA anchor/tricolour lamp uses this type of LED from memory so should last well.

The type of LED used for illumination is more likely to use phosphor to get sufficient light output in a range of colours that is comfortable for the eye, so is more likely to have reduced output with age.

Very useful info.