N Wales to Scilly Planning

[Marlin]

We are planning our summer sailing trip and the Scillies are hot favourite at present. I have 3 weeks of annual leave available so the plan as it stands would be for my dad and I to sail down to Penzance, as fast as possible (within reason for 2 man crew), pick up our good ladies and cross to the Scillies for a week, then the reverse for the way home. The boat is a Moody 33 with fin keel drawing ~1.4m, and we tend to get the motor on if we slip under 5kt SOG and we’re in a hurry, so that’s a good minimum speed for passage planning. We both know the boat pretty well, he has a lot of experience and single-hands regularly; I’ve done a bit of skippering with only inexperienced crew, have just finished YM shore-based and am mile building for YM Offshore, but haven’t sailed single-handed. We’re prepared to do 24hr legs if necessary but would rather stop for an evening meal and sleep, and to see something along the way, if time/weather allow.

With that in mind our proposed route is Menai – Bardsey/Pwllelli – Skomer/Dale – Lundy – Padstow – Penzance – Scilly. We could skip a stop or two if the weather slows us down early on or threatens to slow us later. What are our options in a NW when we get to Cornwall? When does Padstow become untenable? Could we tuck into the bay at St Ives for some shelter? Any good ideas for an alternative route if we’ve got steady SW all week as that would make for a pretty unrewarding journey - maybe via Ireland would make more sense in this circumstance? Does anyone know of an online source for tidal atlases of this area so I can do some further armchair planning?

On Scilly my dad and his partner would be shore based while my partner and I would stay on the boat and offer ferry service to the other pair. How practical is this plan with the littering of rocks between the islands – presumably some of the passages between islands are only tenable at high/slack states of tide? Are there likely to be ample moorings available in late July/early Aug? If not we have a Bruce, but have heard the bottom is mostly weed so perhaps this isn’t terribly well suited? I have bought Gibson’s Sailors Guide to IoS but have only browsed through so far so I may actually have some of these answers in there, I will have a proper read tonight.

Finally, any tips on the shore based accommodation? I guess this is going to be a challenge in high season whilst maintaining the flexibility needed for arriving (and leaving) by sail.

 

[MoodySabre]

Buy this month's YM for a guide on access to Padstow. This is a single hop from Dale about 70nm. You would save quite a bit of time and effort stopping at Skomer instead. Timing of the tide round Ramsey is important.

A good read of the pilot is necessary for rock dodging round the Scillies but it is beautiful and worth the effort.

If you have a mooring in St Mary's harbour then ferrying to and from in a dinghy is OK - weather is everything!

We did Scillies back to Dale in one hop 120nm but fully crewed on a Co32.

Having stayed on St Mary's too my impresssion is that it is expensive. Scillypete may know some good places.

 

[lotusman]

I sailed from Port Dinorwic to the Scillies in a 32ft yacht in July of 2008.

The outward route was departure late afternoon friday from Dinorwic as soon as the lock gates opened, south through the straits against the tide and then a beautiful evening sail down the Lleyn peninsula with splendid sunset. Short summer darkness and decided to press on past Aberystwith without stopping, similarly passed Skomer and exciting passage through Ramsey Sound (fair tide essential) arrived Padstow about 02.00hrs sunday morning. used engine for about four hours in middle of saturday to maintain progress, like you had target of five knots. Should have used it a bit more on this leg but enjoyed the peace too much. Three days in Padstow enjoying beach holiday before very early wednesday morning departure for Falmouth. Had to stop short at Newlyn (15.00hrs same day) due to headwinds and sea state and crew comfort. Brisk sail to Falmouth next day. Three days relaxation visiting museum and pottering in the estuary. Left Falmouth monday 10.00hrs, arrived St Mary's 19.00hrs ish via Crow Sound. Plenty of moorings available for 32ft boat and helpful harbour master in launch. A lot of French yachts with crew who practised peeing over the side. A few German yachts who did not. Departed three days later at 03.00hrs friday just as daylight started to appear via north west passage. Intended to stop in region of Milford Haven, but couldn't bear to waste strong south westerly late afternoon same day so pressed on arriving Holyhead evening of next day. Back to Dinorwic next day via north of Anglesey.

I do not have personal experience of St Ives. The Irish coast is worth a holiday in itself, but may seriously distract you from your objective. From your description of boat and crew I would press on to your objective if the weather is fair - unless travelling is as important as arriving.

 

[GrahamM376]

We've done Conwy down to Penzance many times as one trip, just me and SWMBO. Down the Straits and over the bar, ebb along the Lleyn, then to waypoint west of the Smalls light, next one off Longships then round the corner to Penzance. 36-40 hours. Had to divert to Padstow one time due to SSW F8 at Lands End but, it's a long way off track so you can add another day to get to Longships from there.

Tidal gates at Padstow and Penzance are small but there were (are?) visitor mooring buoys off Penzance quay wall or, if wind suitable, plenty of room to anchor off.

If you are in a hurry, why not go direct to Hughtown and get the ladies to go out on the Scillonian? The route you suggest will take you a while and you could well get stuck if the weather changes.

 

[vyv_cox]

I have done that trip several times. By leaving Abermenai as the tide turns south you can carry it well past Bardsey. The flood inside Cardigan Bay is relatively weak, getting you to somewhere north of Ramsey just as the ebb starts again. Carry this south, outside Ramsey, Skomer, Skokholm is far easier, then head for Padstow. The whole trip can be done with one overnight. The weather at Padstow has to be very heavy before you have trouble crossing the bar, in this case you would probably be better to divert into Milford Haven beforehand.

We never found any shelter from swells in St Ives, have always headed straight for Scilly or round to Penzance.

 

[tom_sail]

When you leaving? I'll be doing this exact trip from Conwy to Penzance around mid may to beginning of June. Although I plan Conwy- Holyhead not the straits.

 

[Scillypete]

On Scilly my dad and his partner would be shore based while my partner and I would stay on the boat and offer ferry service to the other pair. How practical is this plan with the littering of rocks between the islands – presumably some of the passages between islands are only tenable at high/slack states of tide? Are there likely to be ample moorings available in late July/early Aug? If not we have a Bruce, but have heard the bottom is mostly weed so perhaps this isn’t terribly well suited? I have bought Gibson’s Sailors Guide to IoS but have only browsed through so far so I may actually have some of these answers in there, I will have a proper read tonight.

Finally, any tips on the shore based accommodation? I guess this is going to be a challenge in high season whilst maintaining the flexibility needed for arriving (and leaving) by sail.

It would be a perfectly practicle plan to use your own boat to ferry between the islands so long as you navigate with care. As you say some of the channels will require a reasonable rise of tide for you to pass through and although tidal streams may slow your progress when against you they should not stop you getting there. The are a few places with visitor moorings (St Marys harbour, New grimsby Tresco, Old Grimsby Tresco and in Tean sound) expect to pay for using them even for a few hours with the exception of the ones in Tean sound which belong to the hotel. For visits to any of the islands you should always be able to find somewhere to anchor on the proviso that the weather is fit, even with a bruce
Do not limit yourself to staying overnight everynight on the moorings in St Marys harbour as it might turn out to be more comfortable at anchor in Porthcressa or elsewhere.

As for the shore based accommodation for that time of the year I would normally say you need to book well in advance but times are anything but normal and a number of guesthouse owners have plenty of vacancies but that could change, so I will have to sit on the fence about what you should do.

 

[savageseadog]

So you're doing a Scilly trip?

 

[hlb]

Consider Newlyn rather than Penzance. There are pontoons and you can go in or out at any time.

Keep your eye on the weather when at the Scillies, you will need to move round the islands as the wind changes.

 

[Nerissa]

You need to check out the pub with the best view in the world - on St Agnes.

 

[shaunksb]

When you leaving? I'll be doing this exact trip from Conwy to Penzance around mid may to beginning of June. Although I plan Conwy- Holyhead not the straits.

Is there any particular reason you want to go the longer, more exposed way just to see Holyhead?


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[tom_sail]

Is there any particular reason you want to go the longer, more exposed way just to see Holyhead?


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Feels more like a circumnavigation (even though I'm cheating going though the cally canal)

 

[shaunksb]

Feels more like a circumnavigation (even though I'm cheating going though the cally canal)

I can see the logic in that.

You'd be missing an interesting stretch of water though, through the Menai Straights. Not to mention your chance to take on The Swellies.

So much to do and so little time...



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[tom_sail]

I can see the logic in that.

You'd be missing an interesting stretch of water though, through the Menai Straights. Not to mention your chance to take on The Swellies.

So much to do and so little time...

We kept the boat in Caernarfon last year, this year we haved moved it to Conwy as its a 5 min drive from home. I have had my fair share of the Menai Straits lovely place.

 

[Marlin]

Many thanks for the very helpful replies and fantastic pics. Very much looking forward to the trip. You have given me confidence that we can do it all in the 3 weeks available, though we would prefer to see something on the journey, rather than just 'get there' on the way to and from, but at least it's an option.

Tom-sail, we're intending to leave on July 21st so somewhat later than you. We are going on another trip towards Cork, sailing in company with a couple of others, leaving June 2nd, so may see you along the way if you leave around then and the weather suits us going via S Wales. Keep us updated on your trip, I'm very envious!

We would still appreciate recommendations for accommodation if anyone has them. I appreciate no one has a crystal ball to predict the availability, but I guess it's a pretty safe bet we'll struggle given we'll be there during the school summer hols, so I think we're going to have to take a risk on committing to particular dates. The Scillonian or air travel is an option to make use of the accommodation if we sailors don't arrive in good time. I did suggest camping as a nice flexible solution to the shore-based pair, but it didn't go down well! The IoS tourist website doesn't seem to be able to show you what remains available for given dates, it's just a list of places it seems, so I guess we're going to have to send a lot of emails. Not many places seem to be listed on Expedia etc.

Would anyone recommend a particular source for tidal stream info? I'd like to do some further armchair planning with that in mind. This looks to cover a greater area than the Admiralty one so potentially better value? http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Yachtsmans-Tidal-Atlas-Western/dp/0948788364 Or do I need greater resolution, presumably from Admiralty NP255.
Not yet decided if we're going to brave going without purchasing paper charts for the islands and 'rely' on the plotter. If we do so I will join VisitMyHarbour and print out chartlets to have to hand as a backup.

 

[GrahamM376]

Many thanks for the very helpful replies and fantastic pics. Very much looking forward to the trip. You have given me confidence that we can do it all in the 3 weeks available, though we would prefer to see something on the journey, rather than just 'get there' on the way to and from, but at least it's an option.

When we were time restricted, we always got to our main destination as fast as possible and then did the shorter trips on the way home. That way, if the weather kicked up, we could miss out one or two planned stops and get home in time to be back at work.

Chart we used for Scillies was Imray C7, Falmouth to Travose Head and Isles of Scilly, which also has tidal flows for the area. I would not rely on chart plotter alone anywhere or, printed out chartlets as substitute for proper chart.

 

[Allan]

I've done all the trip but not in one go, also I tend to do longer passages than you propose.
Dale is just inside Milford Haven and allows you to leave at any time. There is a pontoon which requires tender to get ashore. You may prefer to anchor as it can be a bit uncomfortable, if you do use it, try to go on the downwind side. Lundy is a short hop from there and should, in my opinion be done on one passage.
Watermouth, Ilfracombe, Appledore and Clovelly are all great places but not really suitable for a fin.
Padstow is a fantastic place, access is fine as long as you get the timing right, which is not difficult. I tend to avoid it as it can be a glue pot.
I agree with hlb above, especially on your return trip, Newlyn is a much better place to leave from.
My only real negative thoughts are that you should avoid The Scilly Isles due to the monsters and plague. I volunteer to go at least twice this year and will tell you all if or when it becomes safe.
Have a great trip.
Allan

 

[Scillypete]

We would still appreciate recommendations for accommodation if anyone has them. I appreciate no one has a crystal ball to predict the availability, but I guess it's a pretty safe bet we'll struggle given we'll be there during the school summer hols, so I think we're going to have to take a risk on committing to particular dates. The Scillonian or air travel is an option to make use of the accommodation if we sailors don't arrive in good time. I did suggest camping as a nice flexible solution to the shore-based pair, but it didn't go down well! The IoS tourist website doesn't seem to be able to show you what remains available for given dates, it's just a list of places it seems, so I guess we're going to have to send a lot of emails. Not many places seem to be listed on Expedia etc.

You could try Beachfield house which overlooks the harbour, I was speaking to him the other day and he still has vacancies through July and August. phone number is 01720 422463

 

[TiggerToo]

Not yet decided if we're going to brave going without purchasing paper charts for the islands and 'rely' on the plotter. If we do so I will join VisitMyHarbour and print out chartlets to have to hand as a backup.

Definitely get yourself a set of paper charts and ScillyPete's guide to complement and back up any electronic plotters.

Unless the ladies really do fancy the crossing from Penzance (but agree the Newlyn is a better choice), I'd recommend they take the Scillonian or the helicopter depending on how deep your pockets are. That way you can aim directly to the IoS and spend more time in that paradiseonearth.

Plenty of places to anchor, you can rely on that.

I only wish we were planning to go back this year... alas it is not to be