My very first colregs thread - rowers

prv

Well-Known Member
Joined
29 Nov 2009
Messages
37,358
Location
Southampton
Visit site
Until now I've carefully avoided getting involved in any colregs threads - I generally have a working knowledge of the everyday requirements and am not interested in debating the pedantic theoretical corners. However, I've realised that I have a gap that is relevant in practice and would be interested to see what Scuttlebutt makes of it. So with some trepidation:

I usually motor from my berth down the river into the estuary, but the other evening I decided to sail. There wasn't a lot of wind, and what there was was against me, but I was in no particular hurry and had the tide with me. KS doesn't point particularly high nor tack particularly fast, so I was using almost the full width of the river on each tack.

There's a rowing club just upriver from my berth, who often practice in the evenings. As I was tacking down the river, several of their boats were whizzing past me. Mostly they would shoot past with neither of us needing to alter course. So far so good.

A bit further down, one of the rowing boats and its attendant coach in his outboard inflatable finished their run and stopped for a bit of a debrief, dead in the water. All well and good except that they stopped right in front of me; in the middle of the river, with me perhaps 30m off their beam, heading straight towards them. Remember I was only moving at a couple of knots in the very light wind.

A couple of strokes on the oars would have moved them out of the way. They were clearly watching me, although more in an abstract look-at-the-pretty-boat kind of way than assessing whether to do anything. Their coach apparently recognised the situation, because he applied a squirt of power to put himself between them and me, while continuing to discuss their rowing technique and pointedly ignoring me.

Clearly they thought that they had every right to sit in the middle of the river while everyone else manoeuvred round them. I was taught as a child that oars give way to sail.

I've since checked and found that in fact this situation doesn't seem to be explicitly covered in the colregs. They don't seem to provide a basis for the people who told me 20 years ago that sails trumped oars, but neither do they allow rowing coaches to deliberately position their ears in just the right place to use my cranse-iron as a cotton-bud.

In practice I stood on for long enough to make it clear that by stopping there they had introduced the possibility of collision, but tacked away before getting close enough for it to be an actual risk (remember very slow speeds). I probably also gave them a bit of a dirty look for good measure, but neither side said anything at any point.

What does the assembled company make of all this?

Pete
 
Oars give way to sail

Aside from any 'narrow channel' issues, I would still contend that you were the stand-on vessel.

The basic premis upon which the col-regs are based, is that the vessel better able to manouvre should do so, in this instance, the rowing boat.
 
Last edited:
As someone who used to row a fair amount, it is not great practice to stop in the middle of a narrow spot, the cox should "pull over" as such. The reason why the rowers looked at you in a dopey fashion is because it is the cox who should take charge and get them out of the way. In this instance, the cox might not have been aware and the stroke (rower nearest the cox should have made the cox aware. A quick hail of the coswain should normally do the trick in this instance
 
My initial thought has little to do with IRPCS but is more along the lines of "You get pillocks everywhere, life's too short, tack away and forget it." You only take years off your life by being stressed about such things so take a deep breath and move on.

Actually its probably the correct response using IRPCS - everyone has an obligation to avoid collision but there's no such thing as a right of way vessel. You stood on, they didn't move, you avoided them.

Big smiley faces all round.
 
You only take years off your life by being stressed about such things so take a deep breath and move on.

Quite right; I'm not stressed, more curious about what "should" have happened and slightly surprised that I didn't find a clear-cut answer when I looked it up.

I would also like to know the "official" position for next time, although as we see that's not necessarily actually going to be *useful* as such.

Pete
 
The reason why the rowers looked at you in a dopey fashion is because it is the cox who should take charge

At first I couldn't actually see a cox, only the four rowers. However a short while after tacking away I noticed a very small person (possibly a child) extract themselves from inside the nosecone of the boat.

In this instance, the cox might not have been aware and the stroke (rower nearest the cox) should have made the cox aware.

Must admit, until he turned his back on me and moved into the way, I was expecting the coach to prod them on a bit.

A quick hail of the coswain should normally do the trick in this instance.

Is there a particular hail used in this situation? Otherwise I might end up shouting something ridiculous like "excuse me!" :-)

"Water!" as used by racers sounds a little preemptory when there doesn't seem to be a clearcut rule involved.

Pete
 
Quite right; I'm not stressed, more curious about what "should" have happened and slightly surprised that I didn't find a clear-cut answer when I looked it up.

I would also like to know the "official" position for next time, although as we see that's not necessarily actually going to be *useful* as such.

Pete
Its been argued in the past that a rowing boat is a power driven vessel, but this is contradicted perhaps by the IRPCS that say that a rowing boat may exhibit the lights of a sailing vessel...

See: http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172731
 
Sounds like potetially an overtaking question.

When they overtook were they past and clear before stopping?

If so did you then become the overtaking vessel?
 
At least 5 short and rapid blasts would be useful.....the 'wake up' signal.

Good argument for having sound maker of whatever style handy in the cockpit!
 
The Danish annotated version of the IRPCS (which is the one I have to hand) have a short passage about rowing boats, mentioning that there are no direct provision governing them in the text, and indicating that 1) good seamanship would include giving way to rowing boats for all other vessels, and 2) that rowing boats should keep out of routes and narrow passages where other vessels sail. So nothing too explicit there.
 
Sounds like potetially an overtaking question.

When they overtook were they past and clear before stopping?

If so did you then become the overtaking vessel?

I don't think either of us overtook the other. On that tack I was heading more or less across the river, they had been travelling more or less straight down it. I say more or less because the shape of the river complicates those definitions, but regardless our respective headings were about 90º to each other. I'd have thought this was a classic "crossing" situation.

Pete
 
I don't think either of us overtook the other. On that tack I was heading more or less across the river, they had been travelling more or less straight down it. I say more or less because the shape of the river complicates those definitions, but regardless our respective headings were about 90º to each other. I'd have thought this was a classic "crossing" situation.

Pete

Ok. I took this one to have been one of the ones that wizzed past you, which you subsequently caught up.

Can't see that you would be wrong in your thoughts.

Suspect that they are not too up on their ColRegs, so may not have understood the significance of the Paddington Bear stare.
 
At least 5 short and rapid blasts would be useful.....the 'wake up' signal.

Seems a bit silly from such a small boat. I do have a mouth-operated "tooter" on board, but I don't think that tooting it at them would have been much use.

To be clear, attracting attention wasn't the issue. Everyone could see that we were on a collision course, they had just decided that they weren't going to move for anybody. The coach's action in putting himself in the way (presumably on the grounds that wrapping his inflatable round my bobstay was preferable to crunching oars and lightweight hull) made that pretty clear.

Pete
 
Ok. I took this one to have been one of the ones that wizzed past you, which you subsequently caught up.

Ah, right. Yes, the same boat had previously come past me, but was well away and round a bend in the river before this situation later arose. The two are entirely independent.

Even when they did come past me, I don't think it was overtaking by a ColRegs definition. Their course took them down the middle of the river astern of me while I was getting ready to tack over near one bank[1]. I was keeping an eye on them but neither of us needed to alter course.

Pete

[1] Actually not the bank but a moored barge, but let's not complicate matters further.
 
It is vague, but either way they'd be in the wrong. If they were stand on vessel they shouldn't have stopped in front of you and if you were they shouldn't have stopped in front of you.

Still you can't run them down. And anyway sounds like that apart from perhaps the coach they weren't trying at all to be unfriendly.
 
If the rowing boat was stopped in the water or hove to, she was not being driven by her power. Does that mean the sailing boat was better able to manouvre?
 
Top