my project sealine

[Bojangles]

Where did you get 15psi from data sheet just says

For best results bring the two dry, coated surfaces into contact within 10 minutes of the adhesive films becoming ‘touch dry’ and press together over the entire bond area. Apply as much pressure as possible by hand. Sustained pressure is unnecessary.

I don't think the vacuum is necessary, when using this method it is really to provide not only a tight clamp on the subject but to provide curing time for the glue (ie pva). With contact adhesive the glue is really cured before the 2 parts are brought together, therfore the grip is almost instant but when used on a large flat surface you need to apply local pressure (ie roller, or another piece of very flat wood and a heavy hammer, if you have a good base). If you are using the roller method I would overlay with 4mm ply and roll over the top of this, preventing tram lines from the roller.

For the edges, unless you are really good with blades/files etc, you'd probably be better using a laminate trimmer/palm router. Edging is another matter, if these are currently 2mm (thick) plastic wood effect edges (on doors), they are probably best removed before you apply the veneer and renewed at the end. Your veneer supplier will probably stock this.

Good luck, I'm enjoying the thread, it's good to see a great boat improved in so many ways.

 

[Bojangles]

Hey dont leave me out....

 

[Elessar]

Does anyone know where I can get panels re-veneered and lacquered?

I have 13 panels incl 3 doors where the veneer has lifted and split! I've had a quote for £5k inc the vat, does this sound reasonable or might it be expensive?

Sorry for thread drift Mark.....

see how mine goes Andy. All your are flat surfaces I think?

£5k sounds a lot, the materials are only £00s.

 

[Elessar]

But you already know that Mark and I'm hugely guilty of telling you how to suck eggs,

Not at all it made me think.

I am going to give it a go with the contact adhesive.

I will comb 1 way on the laminate and the other on the surface.

I will put ply over the top and apply as much pressure as practical, which for many items can be my body weight. (anyone who says ANYTHING there gets a dunking when I next see them )

The curved edge items will be a challenge, with a bit of board needed to sort of roll round the corner.

Anyway priority at the mo is getting her launched, but I am looking forward to trying this out. No point putting the aft cabin furniture back in until it is laminated, so that bit has some urgency.

 

[Elessar]

Would have thought that doors and tops of cabinetry etc are removable, if so then using vacuum bags shouldn't be a problem.

There must be loads of furniture repair type bods locally that have vacuum bags that could do the job, otherwise must be possible to cobble something together?

I can get hold of vac bag kit. The problem is the laminate will be oversize when I stick it on, the vac bag will drag it round the corner and split it.

 

[Elessar]

I don't think the vacuum is necessary, when using this method it is really to provide not only a tight clamp on the subject but to provide curing time for the glue (ie pva). With contact adhesive the glue is really cured before the 2 parts are brought together, therfore the grip is almost instant but when used on a large flat surface you need to apply local pressure (ie roller, or another piece of very flat wood and a heavy hammer, if you have a good base). If you are using the roller method I would overlay with 4mm ply and roll over the top of this, preventing tram lines from the roller.

For the edges, unless you are really good with blades/files etc, you'd probably be better using a laminate trimmer/palm router. Edging is another matter, if these are currently 2mm (thick) plastic wood effect edges (on doors), they are probably best removed before you apply the veneer and renewed at the end. Your veneer supplier will probably stock this.

Good luck, I'm enjoying the thread, it's good to see a great boat improved in so many ways.

I already have the edging from robbins. And yes I am using your board technique.

Thanks

 

[Elessar]

Hey dont leave me out....

did someone just say something??

No - I don't think so

 

[Jurgen]

I can get hold of vac bag kit. The problem is the laminate will be oversize when I stick it on, the vac bag will drag it round the corner and split it.

Really Dumb question but cant you cut it to size?

 

[Elessar]

Really Dumb question but cant you cut it to size?

On the square panels yes, but even then you need micro mm placing precision (difficult)

On the bits that bend (the cupboard door shapes have the same profile as yours) it would just be impossible I reckon.

Slightly oversize and trimmed back with a router once stuck would ensure a perfect fit.

 

[Jurgen]

On the square panels yes, but even then you need micro mm placing precision (difficult)

On the bits that bend (the cupboard door shapes have the same profile as yours) it would just be impossible I reckon.

Slightly oversize and trimmed back with a router once stuck would ensure a perfect fit.

Surely the whole point of the vacuum bags is that the 2 surfaces are pressed together by the vacuum. I the shapes are simple i.e flat or single radius will they not form an even bond?

Wonder how Sealine or their suppliers did the original panels?

 

[rbcoomer]

Not at all it made me think.

I am going to give it a go with the contact adhesive.

I will comb 1 way on the laminate and the other on the surface.

I will put ply over the top and apply as much pressure as practical, which for many items can be my body weight. (anyone who says ANYTHING there gets a dunking when I next see them )

The curved edge items will be a challenge, with a bit of board needed to sort of roll round the corner.

Anyway priority at the mo is getting her launched, but I am looking forward to trying this out. No point putting the aft cabin furniture back in until it is laminated, so that bit has some urgency.

Ah, but how long will you then have to stand there?

 

[petem]

Where's Cuchie when we need him most!

 

[John100156]

.....anyone who says ANYTHING there gets a dunking when I next see them......

I would't dream of it, you could always ask me and Hurricane for some assistance in that department (sorry MikeR)....., 15psi, huh......

 

[Thepipdoc]

Many years ago I did a lot of manufacturing/ laminating of weird and wonderful (flat) shaped coffee dispensers that were used in motorway services.
The guy I was working for at the time had won this huge contract and quite honestly he was winging it, having never laminatied anything in the past!
Long story short, the laminate we were working with was a nightmare. It was the faux brushed stainless steel stuff and it had to be handled with extreme care otherwise it would scratch and mark very easily. It was reasonable easy till we came to trimming the edges using the Hitachi palm router (at the time Hitachi was the only one available). When you'reworking with minute measurements i.e.microns using any hand held machine isn't easy There was a tendency to trim too little - leaving a proud edge because if we tried to get it spot on it was easy to wreck the entire job by damaging the face laminate.

In my opinion - sticking it with contact adhesive and using a roller to remove and air won't be a problem, but trimming the edges and getting it right will be. The difference between a good job and an excellent job will be in the detail.
I suspect oak veneer will be a little more forgiving than shiny finished laminate so maybe it will be fairly easy.

If you go with the grain you'll almost certainly be able to "bend " it around radius edges.

When your boat is finished I reckon you should have an "open" day - I would certainly love to see your handy work first hand and I'm sure many others would.
Keep up the good work - Excellent post.

 

[capsco]

As pipedoc says, I think you will find it relatively easy to stick the laminate, I have used a file to trim the edging with great success, laminate trimmer for the rear facing edges, this means any slight machine marks will not be seen.

 

[jfm]

Wonder how Sealine or their suppliers did the original panels?

They buy it in, 8x4 sheets. Suppliers use huge presses. When sealine et al cut the sheets, they only have to glue strip veneer on the edges, which is easy compared with Ellesar's project.
Good luck Ellesar, I'm sure it will be successful. It's fun to do stuff this challenging and match factory stnadards. Good luck

 

[crazy4557]

Rearo Laminates in Glasgow can do this, I've mentioned them on here before but no connection other than I am a customer of theirs. They can do corian in virtually any shape and have a huge choice of laminates.

Thanks...I'll give them a try and see how much they can do it for.

 

[Elessar]

They buy it in, 8x4 sheets. Suppliers use huge presses. When sealine et al cut the sheets, they only have to glue strip veneer on the edges, which is easy compared with Ellesar's project.
Good luck Ellesar, I'm sure it will be successful. It's fun to do stuff this challenging and match factory stnadards. Good luck

Basically, factory standard or better is ok. Substandard and you de value the boat. It doesn't have to be the same as the factory, but it must be as good IMho. We shall see wont we

 

[Elessar]

time for an update.

I haven't been to the boat for the last 2 weekends and progress has slowed.

We have found our first un planned gremlin. We have budgeted for a few, but this is a setback.

The leaking windows are a real problem and I can't get the seals out.

It also seems there are no window companies on the south coast.

So I have enguaged Tony Hadlow of Hadlow marine to fix the problem. And right now Evenstar 4 has no windows. Tony says they'll be back this week. Nice chap, he comes recommended and seems to know what he's talking about. We'll see.

The dash is done. Waiting for the rain to stop to bolt things in.

And Col has been giving the engines a birthday. All the injector have gone off to be refurbed. He's going to give me an extra 30 hp per engine too.
Spot Vicky in white in front of the engine turning it over to do the tappets!

Oh and for John Coral rae - the air filters do exist!!

More tomorrow!

 

[Whitelighter]

Very nice - very much like the fb dash mod. Much much better than a pod