My new project... MFV Elizmor

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ghostlymoron said:
I'm getting bored with this. Nothings going to happen until the boat owner comes up with the money to get the boat lifted in in a safe manner, with appropriate insurances in place and a proper lift plan in place. Prior to this the lifter will have to satisfy himself as to the bearing strength and stability of the ground which may involve putting down some boreholes unless there is current information available.
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if you're bored with it, why bother reading it? go ellie go i'm sure you're working as hard as you can to make this work and don't need the negative comments
 
ripvan1 said:
if you're bored with it, why bother reading it? go ellie go i'm sure you're working as hard as you can to make this work and don't need the negative comments
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Absolutely ...go Ellie go ... Stump up for the crane and go .... Simple .
 
Lakesailor said:
Again, despite the fact that Ellie has lived on board a boat for some time, I think the up-scaling of costs involved in a bigger boat has been a surprise.
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The costs certainly surprised me. I used to think that paying two hundred quid to have three tons lifted out was a bit painful ... never again. But then, I also had no idea that a fishing boat could be so heavy.
 
KevO said:
True enough... but it sounds like it has been. Get quotes from several potential providers, haggle for the best possible deal between them, then pay it and get the job done.
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It may not be quite that simple ... if other big lifts are planned in the near-ish future it might be well worth looking at joint arrangements. Even if the lifts aren't done together, someone else might come in on the ground survey costs.
 
JumbleDuck said:
The costs certainly surprised me. I used to think that paying two hundred quid to have three tons lifted out was a bit painful ... never again. But then, I also had no idea that a fishing boat could be so heavy.
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Ian Nicoloson has some figures for cost escalation per foot. Its certainly not linear and at around 36' it starts noticibly rising to some power. Get to 55' and the curve is pretty steep. I am abroad and dont have his book here, so cant quote his observations. One of the things that Ian Nicolson is very good at is rules of thumb based on years of design experience and comparison. His literature is packed with them and he uses them all the time, fine tuning the design with facts as it reaches conclusion.
 
It is easy to be seduced by size and space.

We fall in love with something and rationalise our way around the negatives.

Happened to me once. In spite of a good friend impartially and objectively advising me to walk away, I didn't.

Boy, did I pay the price!

There is no free lunch where boats are concerned and the bigger, the more expensive - in every single way. That is a fact of life and no amount of 'Go, Ellie, Go' well meaning encouragement is going to change that.

All that will do is potentially change a nightmare into a tragedy, IMO.
 
BlowingOldBoots said:
Ian Nicoloson has some figures for cost escalation per foot. Its certainly not linear and at around 36' it starts noticibly rising to some power. Get to 55' and the curve is pretty steep.
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The extra length is all in the fat bit in the middle. The ends remain pointy. Plus as the middle bit gets longer the whole hull gets fatter. :)

(except narrowboats)
 
As many have said before, the only way to get a boat of this size back in the water is to take a deep breath and open your wallet - you can't go taking chances with a 70-ton ship. A bit of me does fear that getting her into the water is only the start of the problem/ expense :(

While it's hard to argue with the "go Ellie go" sentiment, the solution does, unfortunately, come down to cold, hard cash.
 
JumbleDuck said:
It may not be quite that simple ... if other big lifts are planned in the near-ish future it might be well worth looking at joint arrangements. Even if the lifts aren't done together, someone else might come in on the ground survey costs.
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What does a ground survey actually consist of?
Do they drill holes?
Does the yard have to have the ground survey anyway for its regular craning?
Unless it's more than a day's work for two qualified blokes, it's hard to see it costing much over £1k.

Crane insurance is expensive, but not that expensive.
Is insuring against the boat falling apart when lifted a factor in all this?
 
lw395 said:
What does a ground survey actually consist of?
Do they drill holes?
Does the yard have to have the ground survey anyway for its regular craning?
Unless it's more than a day's work for two qualified blokes, it's hard to see it costing much over £1k.

Crane insurance is expensive, but not that expensive.
Is insuring against the boat falling apart when lifted a factor in all this?
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Many moons ago, I worked for a company of ground surveyors. A full ground survey will involve drilling cores and then carrying out lab tests on the cores. There will have to be enough cores drilled to ensure that the ground is properly sampled. The lab tests will probably include tri-axial strain tests, and potentially other tests depending on the geology. It's at least a day's work for a drill crew, a day's work in the lab and then the time of the engineering geologist who looks at all the results and gives a professional opinion. In case anyone gets ideas, I'm not qualified to do the last bit - I worked in the lab as a technician. Ground survey work isn't quick or cheap. Ellie's best hope is to share the cost of the survey with others, perhaps by coming to an agreement with the marina.
 
Assuming that there has been little progress since Ellie's last post is it time to sell and walk away and put it down to experience ? It seems as if the Marina is ready to go when Ellie is . What does the armchair panel think .
 
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clyst said:
Assuming that there has been little progress since Ellie's last post is it time to sell and walk away and put it down to experience ? It seems as if the Marina is ready to go when Ellie is . What does the armchair panel think .
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Nice waterside apartment.:encouragement:
 
lw395 said:
What does a ground survey actually consist of?
Do they drill holes?
Does the yard have to have the ground survey anyway for its regular craning?
Unless it's more than a day's work for two qualified blokes, it's hard to see it costing much over £1k.
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Dunno, guv. I presume the loadings under a 200t crane are pretty enormous. As far as I can tell from a cursory and inexpert glance at the Ainscough spec sheet (http://www.ainscough.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/12-Liebherr-LTM-1200-5.1.pdf) using one of their Liebherr LTM 1200-5.1's would require either a 46t or 74t counterweight, and according to Liebherr (http://www.liebherr.com/AT/en-GB/products_at.wfw/id-4294-0/measure-metric) the crane alone weight 60t, so with 70t of boat that's a total of 176t - 200t. I think the crane which launches my boat (not at Preston) weighs about 20t and is good for up to 10t.

155_LTM_1200-5-1_02_3745-0_W615H615.jpg
 
Well well. This is not a boat, safety, servicing nor personal enhancement related financial issue. It is rubber stamping a piece of ground upon which cranes have operated many times with this, and other lifts..

A friend put it better than I.
We are British, we form an orderly queue, we pay and we don't complain (much),,

But we DO NOT like to feel shafted in the process. This is taking the P..

This is pen-pushing reduction ad absurdum, no?

No add-on piece of paper is going to improve the quality of life for Ellie, her boat, the ground, the crane, the marina , is it?

In fact, since a poster chose to see my experience with Gardners ( v v limited btw, one MFV conversion and cruise) in the negative, drilling holes in the ground would buy a LOT of beautiful new traction batteries for Elizmor. or any other posters boat for that matter.

Yesterday I wondered if this thread would 'hit' 55k reads. Today it is 58k

Sommat exponential is happening, with or without jobsworths and their pieces of paper..
 
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Lakesailor said:
Most wooden MFVs are not at the cutting-edge of design
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True. Mind you, the owners of one (steel) fishing boat at Kirkcudbright lopped the front six feet off her with a vertical slice so she'd fit on the end of the quay. Most of the pointy bit was replaced witha traingular metal sheet. Looks most odd.
 
Blueboatman said:
No add-on piece of paper is going to improve the quality of life for Ellie, her boat, the ground, the crane, the marina , is it eh?
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Well, no. But the ground giving way and the whole shooting match toppling into the water (or even into someone else's pride & joy) may spoil the day somewhat, especially if the various insurance companies have an excuse to wash their hands of it. I'm all for a "have a go" attitude, but lifting a 70 ton boat, with a 60 ton crane and a similar sized counterweight is no trivial exercise.
 
as no-one knows ellie's financial situation or what's happening behind the scenes may i ask that positive comments and suggestions are posted and not the snidey ones that certain forumites insist on making - helpful criticism good underhand comments bad -
 
mystique said:
Well, no. But the ground giving way and the whole shooting match toppling into the water (or even into someone else's pride & joy) may spoil the day somewhat, especially if the various insurance companies have an excuse to wash their hands of it. I'm all for a "have a go" attitude, but lifting a 70 ton boat, with a 60 ton crane and a similar sized counterweight is no trivial exercise.
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Cranes use and have used this ground. Isn't that proof empirical?

This is the introduction of an MOT ( car vernacular) for the very ground upon which we walk, or place our boats, in on out up and over.. A funny brave new world eh?
 
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