My new project... MFV Elizmor

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Blueboatman said:
Well well. This is not a boat, safety, servicing nor personal enhancement related financial issue. It is rubber stamping a piece of ground upon which cranes have operated many times with this, and other lifts..


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I think that's probably true of Polruan and Portchester where cranes have toppled in the last few years?
 
I know it sounds all 'elf-n-safety-gorn-mad but here is a relevant example - my Father-in-law is an engineering surveyor of cranes for a large insurance company, he was tasked with an inspection of a yacht club crane which had been in use for about 7 years; a change in insurance companies meant a new inspection, which has since changed to an annual one. They pointed out that it had been used safely for 7 years and was professionally installed and certified. He pointed out that it was dangerous and incorrectly installed - "we've never had a problem" says the yacht club.

It's not an exact parallel of course but the argument that nothing went wrong before is an amateur's argument. We rely on professionals to make a careful judgement rather than a guess. The fact that 10 years ago they didn't have the same checks to make is hardly the fault of anyone today. Arguing that it's just paper is naive; 70 tonnes swinging through the air, lifted by a crane and balance weight of over 100 tonnes isn't a job for a well-meaning bloke. The speculation is fun but the job will get done when it's done in the right way, by the right people and that will cost proper money. As someone who spends a lot of time in boatyards I'm very glad the business of safety is taken seriously.
 
ripvan1 said:
as no-one knows ellie's financial situation or what's happening behind the scenes may i ask that positive comments and suggestions are posted and not the snidey ones that certain forumites insist on making - helpful criticism good underhand comments bad -
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So, you have decided that the discussion should be limited to one view-point. What if we have a comment to make which is borderline? Should we send all our prospective posts to you for checking first?
This is a forum, where things get discussed.
 
The logic is impeccable .

Cranes are subject to inspection certification and regulation, for the very reasons you list.
Did you know there are wise rules wrt UV effect on the lifting strops too?

Seems to me that the boatyard and council owner will both benefit from a new ground inspection too. Presumably each and every time a different crane is used or brought in or is parked in a slightly different place on the same ground as well..at what point is enuff enuff?

Nice work for someone but only if someone is happy enough to pay each and every time ..
 
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As this thread has progressed, much as with an urban myth, poor old Elizmor seems to be getting rather overweight.
Other MFV types of 50 feet x17x 6 draught seem to weigh in at around the 35t mark and are engined accordingly

Elizmor is now up to 70t with the same rugged Gardner 6 engine..

If she were mine I would be searching mighty hard for the crane co who lifted her out. Even 10 years ago these things had gauges and alarms...

Perhaps in a fit of enthusiasm, over-speccing a200t crane is the issue that has moved previous yard lifting experience onto unknown territory, or ground, even ..
 
Blueboatman said:
The logic is impeccable .

Cranes are subject to inspection certification and regulation, for the very reasons you list.
Did you know there are wise rules wrt UV effect on the lifting strops too?

Seems to me that the boatyard and council owner will both benefit from a new ground inspection too. Presumably each and every time a different crane is used or brought in or is parked in a slightly different place on the same ground as well..at what point is enuff enuff?

Nice work for someone but only if someone is happy enough to pay each and every time ..
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Sadly, ground conditions DO change, especially on made ground. Just for example, water draining through the ground may move fine sediments, changing the mechanical properties of the land significantly. The condition of retaining walls (i.e. the dock sides) may deteriorate. Any ground survey is likely to be valid for a specified period, with information about circumstances where it is likely to change.

I don't suppose for a minute that it would be necessary to pay "each and every time", but if the last survey was 10+ years ago, it would be unlikely to be regarded as good enough.
 
Blueboatman said:
As this thread has progressed, much as with an urban myth, poor old Elizmor seems to be getting rather overweight.
Other MFV types of 50 feet x17x 6 draught seem to weigh in at around the 35t mark and are engined accordingly

Elizmor is now up to 70t with the same rugged Gardner 6 engine..

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70t is indeed heavy for a boat of those dimensions.
Is that LOA or LWL?
I guess the only way to check the true weight is to lift it?
 
Lakesailor said:
So, you have decided that the discussion should be limited to one view-point. What if we have a comment to make which is borderline? Should we send all our prospective posts to you for checking first?
This is a forum, where things get discussed.
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+1

I make an observation that four new engine batteries will not come cheap. That is a fact, yet is interpreted as negative.

Whether a cash strapped 23 year old girl or a fat cat city banker has bought this boat matters not. It is still a huge financial commitment.

Going back to the battery illustration; most boats get by with one or two domestic and one engine start battery. Here we have a requirement for four engine batteries. God knows how many deep cycle batteries will be needed if a proper electrical usage exercise were carried out.

So, at a stroke, the cost of starting the engine and having minimal domestic power has probably quadrupled over the 'normal' set up.

That is not nasty, it is not snidey, it is not picking on little Ellie, it is a fact will join many other unsavoury facts as the realities of maintaining this size and type of boat kick in.

It is not even 'helpful criticism' it is merely voicing what a number of others are probably feeling.
 
ripvan1 said:
as no-one knows ellie's financial situation or what's happening behind the scenes may i ask that positive comments and suggestions are posted and not the snidey ones that certain forumites insist on making - helpful criticism good underhand comments bad -
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Snide comments ?? Where ? Different views and opinions yes but that's is what an open forum is about .Anyway who appointed you as the forum policeman ? Surely it's up to the mods to decide what is appropriate and what is not .
 
AntarcticPilot said:
Sadly, ground conditions DO change, especially on made ground. Just for example, water draining through the ground may move fine sediments, changing the mechanical properties of the land significantly. The condition of retaining walls (i.e. the dock sides) may deteriorate. Any ground survey is likely to be valid for a specified period, with information about circumstances where it is likely to change.

I don't suppose for a minute that it would be necessary to pay "each and every time", but if the last survey was 10+ years ago, it would be unlikely to be regarded as good enough.
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Dock walls are also prone to dredging or scouring undermining them.
There are some interesting photo's of the sailing club at Exmouth....
 
lw395 said:
Dock walls are also prone to dredging or scouring undermining them.
There are some interesting photo's of the sailing club at Exmouth....
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Yes there certainly are, but none that I can find on the web. The collapse into the docks entrance was pretty spectacular!
 
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