My ideal 30 foot yacht

[doug748]

And if you were to pay the RRP for the engine you are a rare mariner.

£6,349. They have plumped that up to Volvo territory.


Hello Malo, BTW. Are you any nearer a compromise?

So far, as I have followed it, you have a choice of smaller Rassys which may be a bit snug (separate shower?) Island Packets - but with long keels. Various boats without skegs and short chord fin keels, often with saildrive units to boot. And Vancouvers , long keels, and bigger Vancouvers which almost do it but are....bigger. Self tacking jib seems to be sticking point as well.

 

[shaunksb]

Self tacking jib seems to be sticking point as well.

Is it possible/viable to have a self tacking jib arrangement made up for any boat?

I know Hanse have a Genoa option on the 301 so you can have both.


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[doug748]

Is it possible/viable to have a self tacking jib arrangement made up for any boat?

I know Hanse have a Genoa option on the 301 so you can have both.


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Yes, I think it was mentioned in an earlier response.

One difficulty is that a boat not designed for it will lose some performance. Boats designed at the outset for self tacking may well have additional sail area to compensate. Newer ones will also have nifty ways of easily setting some form of Genniker, or what not. I think the newish Dufour 310 is one such.

 

[Eyore]

Westerly Tempest ticks all boxes if you are prepared to add 16" to the 30ft and compromise on the self tacking jib ,although maybe its possible to fit one.

 

[blackbeard]

Self tacking jib. Yes, I have one on my (admittedly fairly small) boat.
Seems to me that the main reason why a self tacking jib is easier to handle than a conventional genoa is that the ST jib is a lot smaller. Therefore, tacks more easily and is easier to winch in (if you are quick enough, doesn't need much winching at all). Also, you can see where you are going.
The selftackingness is, of itself, a secondary issue. Yes, it does make tacking easier but it's the smaller size of the sail which makes the bigger difference. So if your otherwise ideal boat doesn't have an ST jib and it isn't easy to fit one, then a carefully sized yankee (or thereabouts) should give you what you want.

 

[Malo37]

Back to the OP...first question: what's your budget?[/QUOTE]
Well, I currently have a Regina 38 so if I sell her the budget should cover most options for a boat around 30 ft.

 

[Malo37]

That is just not the case. (Really - where is the data to support this assertion?) They offer superior performance (Really - how do you know and how is 'performance' measured here? If you are talking about sail drives they are certainly less efficient.) and are both widely used on expensive boats. Cheap boats have always tried to reduce costs given the ruling technology. Don't agree that a modern hull is cheaper than older style hulls. ( you are confusing what you call 'older styles' with heavier displacement hulls) Perhaps if you were around when hulls were being moulded 30 or 40 years ago ( I was around, also i am a naval architect so have some idea what i'm talking about) you would appreciate how crudely and cheaply they were built ( nonsense - would you describe Nicholson, Rival, Vancouver, Westerly etc as crude and cheap? )- and not just the cheaper boats. Modern hulls are infinitely better engineered and built to far higher standards than cheap boats of the past and offer much more for the consumer as a result. You can buy flat bottomed boats with conventional drive shafts. All the small Beneteaus and Jeanneaus use shaft drives in competition with saildrive boats and manage to make the most of their hulls. The overall cost of installation at factory level is very little different, ( it's not just the cost of installation of the engine but the hull shape required accommodate it) but of course the saildrive provides a more reliable installation as there is no need to carry out alignment. (Sorry but that's just a nonsensical statement )Both manufacturers are, however moving to saildrives on some of their ranges reflecting the level of acceptance amongst buyers.

s

 

[Malo37]

Thanks all for the discussion. I am looking at all the options including several of the boats mentioned.

 

[rotrax]

Thanks all for the discussion. I am looking at all the options including several of the boats mentioned.

I have suggested Island Packets-but they fall down on good sailing performance-they need a bit of a blow to get going as they are heavy. They also make a lot of leeway when hard on the wind due to their shallow draught.

Looking back, some years ago First Mate and I tested a Southerly 32 at Ichenor.

Worth a look I think.....................................

 

[snooks]

The problem as I see it is you have an either/or situation. Either Skeg hung rudder Or self-tacking jib.
Skeg rudders are out of fashion, self-tacking jibs are very much in fashion.

Of all the boats I can think of without the power of Google (and have sailed on) the Sirius 310 is about the only boat that is available and ticks all your boxes. She also has a deck saloon, which you'll miss moving from the Regina.

If you want to go to twin rudders instead of a spade/Skeg you have many more options most by larger volume producers building their boats at a price.

But around the 30ft mark, the boat I'd go for would be the Winner 9.00: sparkling performance, reasonably priced, fun to sail, practical accommodation, easy to handle and nice looks. Probably won't suit your needs but a great little boat none the less.

 

[Tranona]

Suggest you have a look at the video on the Bavaria website to get an idea of the sophistication of modern manufacturing compared with old style building. Think that will help explain why the modern day equivalents of Westerly, Moody, Sadler etc are so much better built.

You are very selective in your choice of examples from the past and Westerly would certainly not be a good example of well built boats with many examples of osmosis, resin starved moldings, poorly attached keels etc. Judging the quality of something by the amount of GRP poured into a mould, commonly used as an indicator is mistaken. If you want to use bulk of materials as an indicator, then I suggest you look at the displacement of modern boats minus the ballast and compare with old style boats.

The boats you provide as examples are no longer made because nobody wanted to buy them, preferring more modern designs and construction. The present day equivalents mostly use flatter hulls and often saildrives. Instructive to look at what people buy for long distance cruising, for example the ARC and note the domination of modern designs.

As to better performance, that is obvious. Higher sailing speeds, easier sail handling,lighter helm loads. A whole host of things that come from continuous development and listening to customer feedback.

 

[Tranona]

And if you were to pay the RRP for the engine you are a rare mariner.

£6,349. They have plumped that up to Volvo territory.

However, accepting that he got a discount on the engine of say 20% his total cost was much nearer my estimate (which was based on experience of both doing it and reported costs from others) rather than your wishful thinking.

 

[doug748]

Suggest you have a look at the video on the Bavaria website to get an idea of the sophistication of modern manufacturing compared with old style building. .

Not the first place a naval architect would go for insight. You must be a trusting soul.

The rest of your response we have seen before, I think it is on a loop.

 

[bitbaltic]

Is it possible/viable to have a self tacking jib arrangement made up for any boat?

I know Hanse have a Genoa option on the 301 so you can have both

Most 301s have a self tacking track as well as primary winches so you can do both, yes. The trouble is you really need two sails, because if you put a properly cut Genoa on the ST track then the foot tends to be too long to get it to set properly unt you have reefed it down to about one third of the sail. Conversely a properly cut jib designed for the self tacker can be used with the Genoa cars and winches but is to small (short in the foot) for there to be much advantage in doing this.

Agree also that converting a boat not intended for self tacking to ST systems could be an issue if the boat in question was intended to be driven largely by Genoa so has a small mainsail. Such a boat would end up underpowered. The Hanse range have very large mainsails in part because most of the boats feature self tackers.

Cheers

 

[Malo37]

The problem as I see it is you have an either/or situation. Either Skeg hung rudder Or self-tacking jib.
Skeg rudders are out of fashion, self-tacking jibs are very much in fashion.

Of all the boats I can think of without the power of Google (and have sailed on) the Sirius 310 is about the only boat that is available and ticks all your boxes. She also has a deck saloon, which you'll miss moving from the Regina.

If you want to go to twin rudders instead of a spade/Skeg you have many more options most by larger volume producers building their boats at a price.

But around the 30ft mark, the boat I'd go for would be the Winner 9.00: sparkling performance, reasonably priced, fun to sail, practical accommodation, easy to handle and nice looks. Probably won't suit your needs but a great little boat none the less

.

Thanks - interesting, I'll have a look at the winner.

 

[Malo37]

Suggest you have a look at the video on the Bavaria website to get an idea of the sophistication of modern manufacturing compared with old style building. Think that will help explain why the modern day equivalents of Westerly, Moody, Sadler etc are so much better built.

You are very selective in your choice of examples from the past and Westerly would certainly not be a good example of well built boats with many examples of osmosis, resin starved moldings, poorly attached keels etc. Judging the quality of something by the amount of GRP poured into a mould, commonly used as an indicator is mistaken. If you want to use bulk of materials as an indicator, then I suggest you look at the displacement of modern boats minus the ballast and compare with old style boats.

The boats you provide as examples are no longer made because nobody wanted to buy them, preferring more modern designs and construction. The present day equivalents mostly use flatter hulls and often saildrives. Instructive to look at what people buy for long distance cruising, for example the ARC and note the domination of modern designs.

As to better performance, that is obvious. Higher sailing speeds, easier sail handling,lighter helm loads. A whole host of things that come from continuous development and listening to customer feedback.

I'm sorry. I can't be bothered replying to this. Obviously we come from different planets.