My First Motor Boat 40-45ft 10-15 Years Old in Meds - Advice for Newbie

[markc]

Agree with lots of the comments here - go bigger, flybridge and well looked after but make sure you have plenty of tools and the confidence to tackle issues as they arise.

I would also suggest that you will likely find a much better built boat if you buy one pre 2008 / financial crash as virtually all builders started cutting corners to make ends meet at that time

 

[Little Ricky]

IMO, even if your boat cannot move because of engine issues, you will still be able to slob/slosh around on it at the marina used like an apartment. Buy a ten grand RIB too and you'll be able to zip around no matter what. Go big...you know you want to.

 

[CharlesinWater]

Brand new boats are not like brand new cars. They often seem to have "teething problems" and depending on the drive type only get completed after delivery.
Again personal preference and a sweeping statement, but I find the boats built between 2000 and 2010 are better than a lot of the brand new boats today. They tend not to have loads of electronic controls - which look fancy but can be problematic. This period of boats were designed primarily as a boat with some furniture in it and have good seakeeping and the build quality seems better and stronger. More recent boats seem to be designed to a floating house and don't seem as strong and are overly complicated with touch screen controlled bus systems running everything.

If you want reliability look for simplicity. Best boat I have had was a Rodman 38. (I have had 7) It was a 2012 build and built like a tank and very well screwed together with thoughtful engineering, but not the most glamourous designs. I had very few issues with it in 5 years and it rode the waves really well. Very underestimated brand but they sell loads of commercial boats that have a hard life. They seem to carry that design thinking into their leisure boats.

As you have chartered a fair few boats, I guess you already have a good feeling for how much room/cabins you really need on a regular basis. I noticed you have or a looking at getting a house on the coast too and operate the boat from near by. We did similar. When we bought the house we already had a 50ft flybridge. And then mostly stopped using it for longer trips. I discovered that guests etc often prefered the pool to the sea. Sold the 50 foot and bought a 40 footer that we used as a day boat and/or long weekender.

The more I look over the last few days and going up to 50ft I'm more incline to likes of Azimut 46/50, Princess same range, Prestige 46/50. Generally 3 cabins I think is a must and approx 4-4.5m wide beam - prefer the more open space in saloon and in cockpit for living.

But in that price range there almost none in Croatia and few Azimuts in Italy. Most of whats available Spain/France.

Have any one of you done the passage from Spain/France to Croatia? Having a completely new boat and going on such a trip makes me question my life choices a bit For sure something will go wrong with the boat. I reckon road transport of that size would be easily £10-15k with extra slip charges and some assembly at the destination?

Yes as you mentioned the house would be probably 60-70% of time we spend with occassional "lets go for few days" on the boat. An of course me popping in for 2 weeks for no reason at all

 

[CharlesinWater]

You are correct in going for a Flybridge, they give more options than sports cruisers for space and accommodation. You will also want a decent tender in Croatia, as there are many superb anchorages to enjoy, and a tender to the beach or for provisions is a must. So a decent sized bathing platform, and a paserelle or hi-low platform to launch should be on your wish list.

Please don’t get too concerned about blisters or osmosis. These can be fixed with little hassle. Of more importance is the powertrain. This is the most significant cost when it goes wrong. You will want shaft drives for reliability and ease of maintenance. Outdrives need constant attention and IPS on a boat out of manufacturers warranty is a red line for me. A bow thuster is a must, and stern thruster really useful too. If the electronics and nav package is aging, then a new system is £5,000 ish.

Consider the brands that are locally common. They will be easier to sell on. There are loads of Azimuts in Croatia and Italy. Galeons are nice but less common.

Good luck, and keep posting on here. You will get lots of information, occasionally useful. jrudge is a hugely experienced med boater, and worth listening to.

Hi Rafiki

Yes definitely a Flybridge - no question about it . Tender yes its a must. I think hi-low is out of question looking at 46-50 from 2004-2010? At least havent noticed any from that period - so heavy lifting and climbing.

Yes shaft is exactly what I'm looking for. Sadly the older models like Azimut, Prestige etc have Cummins or CAT's. I red the latter had some overheating problems. We the amount of Volvo Penta now is it easy to find good mechanics and spare parts for them
or is it bit of challenge in some marinas?

Thank you for any help. Definitely you guys are a encyclopedia - and willing to help at moments notice.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Hi lo not required if you have a pasarelle, which is essential in the med. Use it to lift the tender.

Most 50’ flybridge boats have bunks in the third cabin. Might be a deal breaker so look out for that.

 

[CharlesinWater]

Charlesinwater, it seems that what you lack in experience can be somewhat overcome with money. From a few comments you have made, you may be fortunate enough to have a bit more cash than I.
Based on that, I would make some enquiries about the marina's you may like to keep the boat, and those you may consider to visit (sometimes a bigger boat can cause availability of berth issues.) If that all works out then a 55ft boat will very likely suit. Consider as advised above circa 2008-2012 era and stick with known brands and or locally popular brands.
Boats like Azimut, Fairline, Princess, sealine, etc all have good craftsmanship, generally good engineering and electrical systems. A boat of that age, well looked after and updated by a previous owner would suit me right now.
Get a good recommendation for a surveyor and open some dialogue with him right away. He will be your hero, rather than some advice on here (yes the advice on here is extremely good and varied in a good way) but we are not directly responsible but your surveyor will be.
If you are a little unfortunate with some items, you can begin by paying for some quality assistance, while learning along the journey. It's not uncommon (me included) to buy a boat at the top of the budget and not have loads left to pay someone to do all the work. That is when caution is very important, as you then need to know what you're doing. Fortunately I can fix most stuff and save a bit.
Keep asking, we enjoy these threads. We enjoy the journey without spending money. Lol.

Hi Pete

Yeah to be honest my way of solving problems with low budgets or lack of funds - I just push myself to earn more I find this is the easiest solution to all money problems - not that I want to throw small fortune on something I'm not experienced with and 3 months later notice a better, shinier, spacier model

I look exactly at the brands you mentioned in the 46/50 range. Not ready yet for 55-58ft I think but 3 cabins a must.

As for marina to be honest I'm not very fussy at the moment. I know I don't know nothing yet so probably will change it 2/3 times. But if there is surveyor who is worth his weight in gold its probably wise to fly him/drive in to see boat. Also I wouldn't take one from same marina or broker as there will be definitely conflict of interest.

I want to do some of the work myself - I think I'm at the stage that this will be my "rest and recovery" from typical business day to day. Just focus on manual work and forget about the world. Joinery, sanding, spraying, electrical work, mechanical is no problem for me but hull/engine/water inlets I don't want to take a risk and as I mentioned above I dont want to work on boat 4 weeks and have fun 2 days only

I will ask for sure. Have few contendants so will also post links - maybe you can throw few pennies of advice.

All the best!

 

[CharlesinWater]

Hi lo not required if you have a pasarelle, which is essential in the med. Use it to lift the tender.

Most 50’ flybridge boats have bunks in the third cabin. Might be a deal breaker so look out for that.

Yes I noticed pasarelle is a must in Croatia. Tenders yes very helpful specially if older models doesnt come with hi-low sadly. Bunk beds not a problem. Mostly for kids or guests with teenagers so they will be fine.

Cheers

 

[markc]

The more I look over the last few days and going up to 50ft I'm more incline to likes of Azimut 46/50, Princess same range, Prestige 46/50. Generally 3 cabins I think is a must and approx 4-4.5m wide beam - prefer the more open space in saloon and in cockpit for living.

But in that price range there almost none in Croatia and few Azimuts in Italy. Most of whats available Spain/France.

Have any one of you done the passage from Spain/France to Croatia? Having a completely new boat and going on such a trip makes me question my life choices a bit For sure something will go wrong with the boat. I reckon road transport of that size would be easily £10-15k with extra slip charges and some assembly at the destination?

Yes as you mentioned the house would be probably 60-70% of time we spend with occassional "lets go for few days" on the boat. An of course me popping in for 2 weeks for no reason at all

Migjt be cheaper to transport as deck cargo, but more fun under your own steam

 

[CharlesinWater]

Agree with lots of the comments here - go bigger, flybridge and well looked after but make sure you have plenty of tools and the confidence to tackle issues as they arise.

I would also suggest that you will likely find a much better built boat if you buy one pre 2008 / financial crash as virtually all builders started cutting corners to make ends meet at that time

Hi Mark

You reckon even the models which didn't changed between 2005-2010 were affected in hull rigidity/thickness of lamination? They cut corners at 2008 literally overnight?

 

[CharlesinWater]

My two penn’orth. Go big,and don’t worry about age. My boat is a 48’ flybridge, 1999. Condition is excellent, but it’s too small for six adults to stay on, the third cabin is bunks. Better if it was smaller with two good cabins, or bigger with three good cabins. In the Med I’d say 55-60’ is the minimum for a three cabin boat.

Bigger is easier to handle too, everything happens more slowly.

Also, as @rafiki_ suggests, avoid outdrives and IPS unless you have deep pockets.

So I see Sticky you in the market for 60s?

Or you just going to "get by" in this tiny 48'?

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Yes I noticed pasarelle is a must in Croatia. Tenders yes very helpful specially if older models doesnt come with hi-low sadly. Bunk beds not a problem. Mostly for kids or guests with teenagers so they will be fine.

Cheers

Ok so bunks in cabin 3 opens up your options a lot. Princess 440/460 or 45/50.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

So I see Sticky you in the market for 60s?

Or you just going to "get by" in this tiny 48'?

I’d go bigger if I had the money. Princess 54 in the Uk would be ideal; or something about 62-70’ in the Med.

 

[CharlesinWater]

You probably want to make a list to narrow down your choices and get some advice on what then is simple to change and what you are stuck with. Based on what is said so far :
1 a brand that is locally popular in area you intend to cruise;
2 the smallest 3 sleeping cabin boat you can get -I guess a newish beneteau trawler 42 squeezes in 3 cabins but too new and out of budget but I assume trawler types not favoured-eg Trader types
3 a make you can sell on easily -nothing exotic then-you don’t mention economy or range required though but is this really a big day boat?
4 simple drives -having read quite a few posts on this forum shaft drives in an older boat with thrusters seem favoured -do you want
5 remember this is a uk centric forum so my and perhaps many here inclination would be uk driven eg a circa 46 foot Princess as opposed to other makes like Azimut etc - clearly -my impression is finish is much better on some uk brands and have smoother lines . Simpler onsell is brands like jeanneau and Bavaria 40something -plenty and Bavaria owners of mobo happy with choice but I guess not with cabins number you want .
6 if looking in med do any boats for sale have chance to take on berth -it might not work like this in Italy but there might be value in buying a boat where the berth can be easily renewed;
7 what’s the exact budget - was confused as to this but assume around €300-400K?
I would thought if you want to buy locally in Italy and not ship out then this might limit choices and a quick solution might be a walk round local marina to see what catches eye ? In uk can do this on the Hamble or port Solent to gage what might appeal
8 I suspect choice once in right general area turns on engines and maintenance history though on basis you are looking for a turnkey boat but will you go smaller to get newer?

Good luck with search.

Hi Ashtead

1. At the moment looking at 46/50 Azimut, Fairline, Princess, Prestige. Not many available so have to look in Italy, Spain, France and even inland Germany etc. Also the Boat Group is getting crazy with their copy/paste websites with yachts so you have to look at 6-7 websites, local ones in each country as not all boats visible.
2. Trawlers not my piece of cake. More 30knots and 22/25knots crusising. But yes 3 cabins a must now.
3. Yeah there is plenty of Astondoa, Aicon, Carnevalli etc but first some of them look very basic and resale will be probably not probable.
4. Shaft drive is a must. Plus too old for latest penta gimmicks.
5. Yes Fairline, Princess Sunseeker definitely have more modern look - they were ahead from local Med brands. But also their price reflects that.
6. The berts in Croatia main areas like Split are almost non existent. So or its Pula or its islands. Or eastern Italy coast. As mentioned in other reply not worry about berth location at the moment. Will feel the boat, areas to visit and if need be take a passage 200 miles to other coast for better berth.
7. I was thinking budget max £250k - é280-290k. Maybe I can squeeze bit more but I'm very pragmatic and want to have extra £50k for any unknowns plus marina, maybe tender, maybe some improvements in electronics.
8. To be honest prefer larger to have more opportunities to spend time with friends and family. AS much as I can spend time on the boat with myslef or my wife/son the life is better with friends, laugh and occassional stupidity. Hence 3 cabins and more living space a must.

Thank you for your input

Charles

 

[CharlesinWater]

IMO, even if your boat cannot move because of engine issues, you will still be able to slob/slosh around on it at the marina used like an apartment. Buy a ten grand RIB too and you'll be able to zip around no matter what. Go big...you know you want to.

Heheh thats another way to approach engine problems Yes its much more enjoyable when you are flopping left/right on the waves even if boat is just a floating apartment. Of course rib or wiliamson a must!

 

[roa312]

The Fairline Phantom 50 has 3 well sized cabins, no bunk beds. Some of them also have an extra crew cabin aft. I think it's a bit older than what you were aiming for, but that might help on price.

 

[Little Ricky]

When going for a 3 cabin layout, be carful the third cabin is not at the expense of the dinnette area, you'll regret eating lunch on your lap all the time just so two more people can have a kip.

 

[adey]

Since you’re talking about trucking…
Astondoa 464
Someone’s gone mad with the vinyl wrapping but that’s easily removed.
(I might be slightly biased)

 

[markc]

Hi Mark

You reckon even the models which didn't changed between 2005-2010 were affected in hull rigidity/thickness of lamination? They cut corners at 2008 literally overnight?

Hull thickness / layup is probably way down the list of things you need to be concerned with, unless you're planning on going out in all weathers. It's all about the things you can't see... did the builder swap stainless steel tanks for mild steel, did they install cheaper engines, a smaller generator, lower power A/C, cheaper water pumps etc. etc. I'm certainly not saying that all boats built after this period are bad, rather that although it might seem counter intuitive, looking at slightly older boats could get you something of a higher quality, for less money.