My choice of anchor is . . .

thrown him in the drink

  • yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • and tied an anchor to his feet

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    0
Re: The new Rocna was covered with a huge clump of mud/sand/grass

[ QUOTE ]

<span style="color:blue"> should we be judging anything on one report with no supporting information.</span>

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely not, you are perfectly right (as usual) Gmac..

But I’m a little bit surprised by the contrast:

- on one side, a very efficient salesman , who is posting everywhere that the Ronca was #1 at one single anchor test ( in fact in one single figure published by only one of the three reporting magazine ) and posting too a modified table from West marine showing that his anchor is by far the best..

On the other side, there is a small phrase on the YM test report: “On the second pull it released suddenly ” backed up by some independent comments on the web:
- =http://www.caribbeansoul.us/feb2007d.htm top-rated Rocna anchor drags
- =http://www.svintothelight.com/Feb0706.html : we had dragged and were dragging. The new Rocna was covered with a huge...

Yes, once again I agree with you, only three negative comments.. but could it be only the visible part of the iceberg.. Not all sailors who are dragging are reporting the problem on Internet, and I’m not informed about all anchors related publications on Internet either.. /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
 
Re: The new Rocna was covered with a huge clump of mud/sand/grass

[ QUOTE ]
the failure mode of this Rocna is identical to the failure mode that I have experienced with the Bruce. I have been told unequivocally, in this forum, that the new generation anchors don't do that, but clearly they do - or, at least, they can

[/ QUOTE ]Well, that was an interesting conclusion, was it not not? After 10 000 postings discussing these "new designs", we finally conclude that they might be about just as good as our old proven ones. Is anybody with any anchoring experience really surprised? Did not think so. I will sleep much better from now.
 
Re: The new Rocna was covered with a huge clump of mud/sand/grass

[ QUOTE ]
Well, that was an interesting conclusion, was it not not? After 10 000 postings discussing these "new designs", we finally conclude that they might be about just as good as our old proven ones.

[/ QUOTE ]Do you really believe that? That a CQR is as good, all round, as a Delta, or a Spade?

Some market research company, somewhere, must surely have carried out a multi client report on the market for yacht anchors giving details of the number of anchors sold, by type, size, territory, application, year, etc. and forecasts. If not, it's about time that the anchor manufacturers got together to commission one.

Craig and Alain would be most likely to know, of those present, or GMax?
 
Re: The new Rocna was covered with a huge clump of mud/sand/grass

Yes Lemain, the CQR is the main cruiser anchor. Just accept that fact, whether you agree or not.

Let us just please stop this discussion; it does not lead anywhere anymore. Sure, there are a lot of Delta and some Spade and some other "new" anchors out there. I am sure they do as good a job as the "old proven" designs, The problem with these "what is your favourite anchor" thread is that it might give the inexperienced the wrong view that anchor design is more important than understanding all the other variables you have to deal with in anchoring: bottom type, wind gusts, wind strengh, wind direction, water depth and possible scope deployed. Not to mention: have you dug your anchor in?

Trying to narrow an anchoring discussion into anchor designs is like trying to discuss if it easier to park a BMW or a Volvo in a parking garage.
 
Re: The new Rocna was covered with a huge clump of mud/sand/grass

[ QUOTE ]
Trying to narrow an anchoring discussion into anchor designs is like trying to discuss if it easier to park a BMW or a Volvo in a parking garage.

[/ QUOTE ]If you want to use a motoring analogy, surely it's more like comparing the reliability and performance of a Ford Anglia with that of a Ford Focus. Besides, finding a single Ford Focus on the roadside with its bonnet up does not mean that the Ford Focus (or all other modern cars) is inferior (or equal to) the Ford Anglia of the 1960s.

Mr Ford and his heirs discovered long ago that it was unwise to claim that their cars would never break down and they have desisted from doing so. In due course, certain anchor manufacturers might do the same. It was certainly very bad of them to give the impression that their products could not fail under some fairly common circumstances as it might be giving a false sense of security in their products. In this field, it could result in death or injury, as well as loss of property.
 
Re: The new Rocna was covered with a huge clump of mud/sand/grass

[ QUOTE ]
My point was - and still is - that the failure mode of this Rocna is identical to the failure mode that I have experienced with the Bruce. I have been told unequivocally, in this forum, that the new generation anchors don't do that, but clearly they do - or, at least, they can do.

[/ QUOTE ]

And who told you that? Would be anyone who makes anchors would it? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Lemain I'm a bit disappointed such an astute gentleman like yourself could believe there is such an animal as an infallible anchor, I am a gasp /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

In all my years of use and research of anchors I can never remembering one that did not have a flaw of one sort or another, many had/have multiples. It's the nature of the beast.

So that lump of grass hooked by that rocna is a flaw you say. Hang on a sec, are you and Alain saying you don't like anchors that can hook up on something? Should I be confused? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Only joking there gents I know you like to be hooked up but where was the flaw in this example? The seabed has to be looked at hard here.

Yes Craig does stick his head up and when you do it is a lot easier to shoot it down. I'm just saying one partially reported slip, one of 10,000's already happened, does not an issue make.

Alain is baiting Craig and you did feed Alain a bit. Don't encourage an arms war over a minor incident. Before anyone goes off, I mean any anchor dragging for whatever reason is something to add to the databank, so to speak, and is signifcant. But someone posting on and on about the same thing especially when it is always targeted at one specific person is a pain in the arse and not productive. Alain coped serious crap about a Spade thing a few years ago (and it still pops up today) but was it justified? No it wasn't when all the facts came out. How many bothered with the facts? Not many from what I've seen. I'm glad to see Craig has not bitten and brought something like that up, I'm guessing he wants too though. Would that do anyone any good? No, so why go there. Don't feed the animals, they can bite /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Anywho, the fridge is still running well, the beers are plentiful, the weather tomorrow looks a cracker so out to watch the 18's and you're still very welcome to join me /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
Re: The new Rocna was covered with a huge clump of mud/sand/grass

Don't see a lot of Ford Anglia's around anymore. And your point is....?
 
Re: The new Rocna was covered with a huge clump of mud/sand/grass

The quickest way for you to get a more open view would be for you to actually try one of the new anchors. I did - I can't be arsed anymore with the skill needed to set a CQR (which I could do) but the manson goes in first time no matter how you chuck it in, even if you are moveing at the time - stops you all standing the moment it hits the bottom.

I am sorry Lady Jesse, but CQR's may be numerically superior, but it does not mean to say they are better - its just that the others like you have learnt to cope, and don't know better.
 
Re: The new Rocna was covered with a huge clump of mud/sand/grass

I concur. I didn't know what I'd been missing 'til I tried (and then bought) a new design anchor (which shall remain unidentified to promote peace and harmony amongst forumites /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif.)
 
Re: The new Rocna was covered with a huge clump of mud/sand/grass

[ QUOTE ]
its just that the others like you have learnt to cope, and don't know better.

[/ QUOTE ]Well, that might be true. It is just that the CQR works very well for me and most other long term cruisers I have met. Anchors are important to us as we spend most of our times hanging on it, so don't think I take this light hearted. It is just that a new anchor design seems like a solution to a problem I don't have. If I did I would be very quick to look into those things. In my mind, there are significantly more important problems looking for a solution in the cruising world; antifouling that antifouls, low maintenance watermakers and long life batteries are just some of the things that could make a really important contribution. We already have a good anchor design. Call me conservative, but I run my boat on the "don't fix it if it ain't broken" rule.
 
Re: The new Rocna was covered with a huge clump of mud/sand/grass

[ QUOTE ]
It is just that the CQR works very well for me and most other long term cruisers I have met.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe Lady Jessie, you don't met the right long term cruisers... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

As an example, look at the post which as just been posted on:

web page

I kept a record of what boat used what anchor during 7 months in Luperon DR. <span style="color:red"> There were 17 major drags that I helped with, 14 were plows ...2 were danforths.. </span> one was an odd thing like a bruce with more fluke area and teeth machinrd into the leading edge, also had an adjustaqble shank angle. THAT DAM THING LOOKED LIKE IT OUGHT TO HAVE HELD...ONE DANFORTH HAD A ROCK IN THE LITTLE SCOOP THAT KEPT THE BLADES FLAT.ONE HAD THE CHAIN WRAPPED AROUND THAT ROUND ROD. Luperon is a thick clay like mud similar to many harbours I have anchored in , including Cartegena were I am now.. <span style="color:brown"> the plows plowed what do you expect... </span> The anchor causing the most buzz is the spade I am saving for one because I saw some impressive results wiyh one with a formosa 51.

Able Snead
 
Re: The new Rocna was covered with a huge clump of mud/sand/grass

It may be that you don't have a problem, but others may find modern anchors much better, and are interested in the information gleaned from some of these threads. Why don't you give anchor threads a miss if this is the case and leave it to people who are more interested?
 
Re: The new Rocna was covered with a huge clump of mud/sand/grass

I like this answer!.. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I know Laddy Jessie is only lissening to those who think exactly like him..

Proove.. he has blocked my messages.. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Re: The new Rocna was covered with a huge clump of mud/sand/grass

But it IS bust - so I fixed it. You will know doubt go to your grave continuing with your view because you are incapable of looking at any thing new. - I can see the headlines now. "Yachtsmans drags his favourite anchor to the grave"

Well - obviously I do not wish that for you. You ought to at least try one, I would appreciate your views much more then.
 
Re: The new Rocna was covered with a huge clump of mud/sand/grass

Believe me I am very curious to test one. But is is extremely difficult to find long distance live-aboards with these anchors. And I guess that was the original question to this thread: what is the most popular anchor with live-aboards. I just responded to that so don't try to shut me down. It might be different circumstances being a live-aboard in Portsmouth harbour, but the cruisers I met have CQR's more often than not.

I just came back from breakfast with my neighboor in this bay (in south western Turkey). It is a Finnish couple who are on their last legs back to Finland after a circumnavigation of three years. They have already sailed 35 000 nm and they have day long stories of what they have encountered. But when I asked them if they had had any problem with their anchor, they kind of looked at me funny and said "no, we have a CQR and it works fine". This is a very typical response I get in the cruising community; anchors are sorted and not a topic for discussion. That was just the view I would like to have reflected on this forum that is, after all, the "Liveaboard Forum". I have been amazed by the amount of energy spent on this topic here. I guess it must be a reflection of a local UK problem, it is not typical of the liveaboard community in the Med or any circumnavigators I have yet met.
 
Re: The new Rocna was covered with a huge clump of mud/sand/grass

[ QUOTE ]
Believe me I am very curious to test one. But is is extremely difficult to find long distance live-aboards with these anchors. And I guess that was the original question to this thread: what is the most popular anchor with live-aboards. I just responded to that so don't try to shut me down.

[/ QUOTE ]

So presumably you take this other comment back?

[ QUOTE ]
Well, that was an interesting conclusion, was it not not? After 10 000 postings discussing these "new designs", we finally conclude that they might be about just as good as our old proven ones. Is anybody with any anchoring experience really surprised? Did not think so. I will sleep much better from now.

[/ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
I just came back from breakfast with my neighboor in this bay (in south western Turkey). It is a Finnish couple who are on their last legs back to Finland after a circumnavigation of three years. They have already sailed 35 000 nm and they have day long stories of what they have encountered. But when I asked them if they had had any problem with their anchor, they kind of looked at me funny and said "no, we have a CQR and it works fine". This is a very typical response I get in the cruising community; anchors are sorted and not a topic for discussion. That was just the view I would like to have reflected on this forum that is, after all, the "Liveaboard Forum". I have been amazed by the amount of energy spent on this topic here. I guess it must be a reflection of a local UK problem, it is not typical of the liveaboard community in the Med or any circumnavigators I have yet met.

[/ QUOTE ]

I suspect there are various reasons why CQR's are still very much a dominant anchor - they last for years and years and years - it is not an items that tends to give up the ghost so you have to look for what is next for you; modern anchors are really in their infancy as far as experience and sales are concerned; many people think like you - automatic decision to stick with a popular anchor - sort of sheep decision.

Not saying that new always means best, but neither would I be quite so dismissive of them, and I get the feeling that you have already decided that CQR's are as good as you can get - even without trying something different.

UK problem - don't think so. I remember anchoring of a lovely Danish island a few years ago - full summer with plenty of other boats also in the same spot. In the morning (6am) it was blowing F2 to 3 onshore, and several of the boats dragged. One guy was bouncing his boat on the beach but managed to get off it (in his boxer shorts) as it was so calm.

For me you have to have 100% faith in an anchor - it is critical that when you are ashore your boat is where you left it, and this does not always happen, in my experience, with a CQR, so no wonder it creates so much interest.

Perhaps it is a boat size issue? The smaller the boat the more chane you have a smaller anchor, and for traditional anchors it has been said that 25lb is about as small as you want to got - maybe in these sorts of sizes the design becomes even more important for it to dig in?
 
Re: The new Rocna was covered with a huge clump of mud/sand/grass

[ QUOTE ]
So presumably you take this other comment back?

[/ QUOTE ]No I would not take it back. I guess I should have expressed myself better: I would like to test a new anchor if the opportunity arises. This is just not a priority item for me at this time.
[ QUOTE ]
automatic decision to stick with a popular anchor - sort of sheep decision.

[/ QUOTE ]I think that is a very unfair view of people with thousands of anchoring experiences. I have not yet met a cruiser that leaves an important decision such as anchors this casually.

[ QUOTE ]
UK problem - don't think so. I remember anchoring of a lovely Danish island a few years ago. Perhaps it is a boat size issue?

[/ QUOTE ]I did not say that people do not drag outside the UK; it is just that I not met this intense interest in anchors from anywhere else than UK liveaboards (if that is what they are...). Do you have another theory?

About size of anchor; that is an interesting observation that I also believed in for a long time. When I bought my present 12 meter, 9 tonnes boat five years ago, one of the first observations was that I thought the 35lbs CQR was way too small for this size of boat and needed to be replaced ASAP. However, other things got in the way and I never got around to replacing it before starting off on a 3000 nm delivery trip. Then I found that it worked fine and did not need replacement. Five years and 15 000 nm later I am more convinced than ever that it works just fine. I have also sailed long distances on Swan 59 with a 50lbs CQR. Again, first reaction was "oh my God, that is way too small" but it worked just fine.

In summary, I do base my experience on many CQR, Bruce and Danforth anchorings and to a lesser extent Delta. I am just sharing my experience that this has convinced me that the CQR is the best I have ever used and good enough in any circumstance I have yet encountered. Yes, I am curious to test these "new" things but please excuse me if my urgency is not that high. This is not a thing I need to have fixed.
 
Re: The new Rocna was covered with a huge clump of mud/sand/grass

[ QUOTE ]
it is just that I not met this intense interest in anchors from anywhere else than UK liveaboards

[/ QUOTE ]

Mate.... you want to come down here then. It's all on and across the fleet not just live a boards.
As a FYI, The CQR's are losing. Not saying CQR's are bad just people are finding there is better.
 
Re: The new Rocna was covered with a huge clump of mud/sand/grass

98 replys!!!!Whats the point! I wont buy a new anchor,couldent aford to and my Danforth/CQR serve me well.

I came to post about wareing a skirt about the boat and shore pros and cons and my experiance of a skirt and couldent beleive this anchor post begun by webcrafts still going!!!

What a luck its on line and not in port--or at anchor! Either it would end in disaster and bad feelings or a huge BBQ where everyone drinks far to much and remain freinds!

Ill post a bit later about my skirt! Its lunch time now and quite hot down hear i need a drink
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top