mjcoon
Well-known member
I've seen some revealing TV documentaries about how that approach came about!
Mutiny!
- Thread starter LittleSister
- Start date
Buck Turgidson
Well-known member
If anyone wants a course we do specials for non aviation groups. It’s adopted in many industries these days and we do a lot of training for medical staff.
the description above is a bit simplistic but I’m sure you get the drift.
Buck Turgidson
Well-known member
No. They don’t make documentaries when it works.
wingcommander
Active member
Approaching Castle Bay just having crossed from Canna. Having reached our way point around the south cardinal we had a good clear view of the channel marker bouys . Iirc three pairs , and from our position a definite dog leg to Port once through the first pair . Our Skipper from below telling us to hold course as he obviously hadn't noticed the second pair , was aiming for the last pair, heading for submerged reef and breaking water. We obviously made the turn to Port then back to pass through the final pair . Followed by a very good meerkat impression by the now confused Skipper. At the time I was very inexperienced however my fellow crewman was a very experienced old gentleman who simply said ...Mk 1 eyeball trumps your modern technology.
jlavery
Well-known member
Thread drift alert
My father started in BOAC flying Constellations, moved on to Comet 4, VC10 and finally Tristar with BA.
I remember him being involved in the adoption of crew management/cockpit management methodologies in his later career.
Consequently (and related to my wife's medical career), I'm very conscious of crew dynamics and communication on board.
PHN
Member
Arctic area, destination in sight. Except that we had several miles of sea ice in between. Skipper sailed into the ice field. Crew told skipper that such a move was a bad idea. In case of a wind shift you are stuck with nowhere to go and boat risks to be crushed. Then skipper attempted using the sailboat as an ice breaker to clear a path. At that point crew told skipper to stop and divert course. We found our way back out of the ice field and sailed to another destination.
WoodyP
Well-known member
360 degree review with team members can be revealing for managers and I think would work for skippers as well.
O wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
An' foolish notion:
What airs in dress an' gait wad lea'e us,
An' ev'n devotion!
O wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
An' foolish notion:
What airs in dress an' gait wad lea'e us,
An' ev'n devotion!
AntarcticPilot
Well-known member
Even for icebreakers, the ice can sometimes win. For unstrengthened yachts, the ice will always win, even if it's thin ice. The forces exerted by even a thin sheet of ice being blown onto a yacht by the wind don't bear thinking about. I'd have joined the mutiny under those circumstances, and joined in confining a skipper who argued about it!
Fram is the only sailing ship that could withstand ice, and she did it by being designed so that pressure would lift her out of the ice. She was also built incredibly heavily out of the strongest woods. She also was a lousy sea boat, slow and rolled like a pig!
Endurance was ice strengthened to a high degree, but wasn't designed to be lifted by ice pressure. She did very well, but I have a photo of her just before she sank in my cloakroom!
Skippers of modern ice breakers are very careful about the situations they will allow their ship to get into. The recent book about finding the wreck of the Endurance is a fascinating account of the decisions that the icebreaker's captain had to take.
wingcommander
Active member
Endurance was ice strengthened to a high degree, but wasn't designed to be lifted by ice pressure. She did very well, but I have a photo of her just before she sank in my cloakroom!
Wow how deep is your cloakroom?
Wow how deep is your cloakroom?
Sandy
Well-known member
Not mutiny as such, but there was one boat that I almost walked away from. I decided to stick it for the return leg as I felt that the remaining crew member might have his hands full. I learned a lot from an old 'died in the wool racing skipper' about how not to skipper. His sail trim was impressive.
One of the lessons was how to be a human preventer, not a technique I was happy with and seeing the video below felt justified in not volunteering to be the preventer.
His anchoring style was interesting, scope calculated at three time charted depth when we had a spring and a 5 metre range. After not digging in on the fourth attempt I asked to check his calcs, adjusted for the height of tide and the hook bit first time.
Dinghies apparently are for softies, we were to walk on water to get to the pub, as yet I've yet to master that particular skill even if I did I am sure I'd be rubbish at staggering back after a few pints.
On the return leg we found out that the racing skipper had only ever used marinas and was expecting to tie up alongside.
I never sailed with him again.
One of the lessons was how to be a human preventer, not a technique I was happy with and seeing the video below felt justified in not volunteering to be the preventer.
His anchoring style was interesting, scope calculated at three time charted depth when we had a spring and a 5 metre range. After not digging in on the fourth attempt I asked to check his calcs, adjusted for the height of tide and the hook bit first time.
Dinghies apparently are for softies, we were to walk on water to get to the pub, as yet I've yet to master that particular skill even if I did I am sure I'd be rubbish at staggering back after a few pints.
On the return leg we found out that the racing skipper had only ever used marinas and was expecting to tie up alongside.
I never sailed with him again.
AntarcticPilot
Well-known member
Deep enough!
zoidberg
Well-known member
In the context of ice damage to small sailing vessels, I remain intrigued by the decision-making and passages into and through ice by the likes of Major Bill Tilman and the Rev Bob Shepton.
AntarcticPilot
Well-known member
It can be done with care and a knowledge of the likely effects of wind on ice. But it relies on finding ice-free paths though the ice, and basically taking calculated risks, especially as ice pack can transmit forces arising from wind action at some considerable distance.
I don't have that knowledge! But I know where to find satellite radar images that would make it easier. One of my colleagues was involved in the provision of that kind of information.
zoidberg
Well-known member
I'm wondering when the pack ice is likely, this year, to break up on the Clyde Estuary and in Oban Harbour.....
Buck Turgidson
Well-known member
I did my Tristar conversion with BA as we didn’t have our own course at the time. A couple of months at crainbank was luxury for us airforce types
ryanroberts
Well-known member
Last week was close, the second time I grounded in Poole trying to mudskip back to get the 4:30 bridge.
jlavery
Well-known member
I'm resisting the temptation to hijack this thread more with aviation reminiscences!I did my Tristar conversion with BA as we didn’t have our own course at the time. A couple of months at crainbank was luxury for us airforce types
LittleSister
Well-known member
There seem to be quite a few on the forum with aviation backgrounds, so why why not start a specific new thread in which people could indulge their, er, flights of nostalgia?
Ian William Smyth
New member
Is this you Roger
AntarcticPilot
Well-known member
Well, it forms regularly in Kip Marina!I'm wondering when the pack ice is likely, this year, to break up on the Clyde Estuary and in Oban Harbour.....
