Musings on anchor trip line

I've given a bit of thought to the various problems, and so far this is my best shot for someone who routinely risks a foul anchor, but needs a secure tripping system.

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The "shuttlecock" is fabricated from stainless steel rod of suitable diameter, two rings and four straights. Only the bottom ring needs to be strong, and the top ring should be a small bush or bullseye, maybe 10mm inside diameter.

The idea is that to retrieve a fouled anchor, a wire "snare" noose (perhaps a loop of 7/19 rigging wire with a big talurit eye at one end and a smaller one at the other, and perhaps a big shackle at the bottom of the loop to weight it down) is dropped over the bleach bottle and lowered down to the shuttlecock on a strong warp. The loop's "natural" diameter should be big enough that it definitely passes around the shuttlecock, but no bigger. With the loop resting in the crook of the dropper line from the smaller float, that float is then pulled down (by retrieving the bleach bottle float) and swallowed up within the shuttlecock. The latter is pulled upwards a bit to encourage the loop to pass below it, then the warp is hauled on to tighten the loop below the "strong metal ring", snaring the chain labelled as 1/4" G70 (I would go bigger on an anchor weighing in at over 25-30kg).

The warp is now used to pull from a suitable direction to free the anchor.

I probably wouldn't personally bother with this for an anchor where more ad-hoc methods (I particularly like the "chain in the middle of a warp" suggested by vyv_cox) had proven to work well, unless there was a strong benefit in having a marker buoy showing me where the anchor was. To give one example: it might discourage others from dropping their anchor on, or close to mine. This rig, like Mistroma's lead sinker (which I do recall dreaming up years ago but never tried) does have the nice feature of self-adjusting even in an area with big tides, the line to the single buoy at the surface being kept taut. And in the case of my proposed rig, if a prop does grab the line, it will probably at least winch the small float into the shuttlecock before the line snaps. You can then grapple for the shuttlecock if the anchor is foul, and a bleach bottle is no great loss.

Another advantage of this system is that the upwards force on the anchor is minimal, somewhat less than twice the buoyancy of the SMALLER float plus the buoyancy of the line.

Thinking more about vyv_cox's idea, it would also be excellent for rusty ring-bolts on wharves, particularly massive wrought iron ones which have corroded into something resembling a stale croissant. ON EDIT: It preserves the option to slip and run, in situations which might quickly become untenable, without leaving any gear behind. In that situation I have previously cow-hitched a short webbing sling through the ringbolt, and then doubled the shoreline through the sling. This means (in an emergency) either slipping the rope and leaving the webbing for someone else (not a bad option) or in an absolute firedrill situation putting a sharp knife through the webbing (with gratifyingly rapid results if it's under significant load)

I've waited a wee while to see if anyone else would comment on this.

Ye Gods! Is this just theoretical, or have you actually experimented with all this junk? I would think that there's a fair chance of fouling your own anchor with some of the ironmongery.

As I have said previously, I hate using a tripping line with a float, but at least it's just a single line with a modest float attached. Even so, when letting go, the line does its damnedest to get caught around the anchor. What it would be like with all the multitude of lines, floats, and steel cages, I shudder to think.

Welcome to the forum, by the way.
 
Whilst that is true of 'anchors on the bows', many of these came with the boat when new. I think a rather more accurate statistic would be of sales of replacement anchors. I'd wager a high proportion of these are NG.

(Excuse thread drift).

My purely informal surveys in the Mediterranean suggest that more than 50% of boats have Deltas as their bower anchor. Sailing Holidays use some very dodgy Bruce copies, maybe some better ones as well, but the vast majority of charter boats have Deltas, along with a good proportion of private boats. In most cases they are pretty much as good as an NG at a third of the price.
 
My purely informal surveys in the Mediterranean suggest that more than 50% of boats have Deltas as their bower anchor. Sailing Holidays use some very dodgy Bruce copies, maybe some better ones as well, but the vast majority of charter boats have Deltas, along with a good proportion of private boats. In most cases they are pretty much as good as an NG at a third of the price.

My poll of marinas in the Med, USA, Oz, UK and a few Pacific Islands would be identical to Vyv's comment. Even on long term cruising yachts NG are in the minority. There are regional variations, Brittany in French speaking, Bugels in the eastern Med, Fortress and Danforth in America but the most common anchors are CQR/Bruce/Delta or clones. If a chandler local to a marina stocks a specific NG then they will be more popular but in no marina I have visited are NG so numerous to think its been a successful 15 years of marketing - the potential is huge.

In contrast - I'd say half the anchors have a swivel - with no marketing, no known benefits, known weaknesses and relatively expensive.

Go figure!

Jonathan
 
A friend who may very well be reading this, as he is a regular reader and occasional contributor here - a man of absolutely vast experience after a lifetime in command of merchant ships and a good many years cruising the Patagonian Channels and related waters in his Westerly Sealord - uses a swivel.

But I do not know why...
 
Nor do I... :)

Theory is that anchor will always come up the right way round... it doesn't... invariably needs a poke with the kelp knife... but that is down to the hydrodynamics of the Rocna.... either needs a poke or I have to go astern just as it is breaking the surface.

I'm still using the Kong that I bought at the Gun Shed when visiting you 10 years ago.....
 
The Gun Shed are about to sell me a whole new chain, as the ex owner followed the deplorable practice of leaving the chain in the locker when laid up, and "manky" does not begin to do justice to how nasty it is!

The ex engine was disconnected for lifting out today...
 
Slowly overcoming a nasty bit of jet lag here....
Fitted the swivel when I had the old CQR.... prior to that it would always come up to the roller A-about-califate and was a serious pest.

Yes, it does have a shackle between it and anchor....

90% of my anchoring is static load... ie drop anchor, back up into corner, run 2 or 4 shore lines so no sideloading.

Also , the CQR was worse than useless in kelp.

Good to hear work is progressing on your new ship.
 
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Slowly overcoming a nasty bit of jet lag here....
Fitted the swivel when I had the old CQR.... prior to that it would always come up to the roller A-about-califate and was a serious pest.

Yes, it does have a shackle between it and anchor....

90% of my anchoring is static load... ie drop anchor, back up into corner, run 2 or 4 shore lines so no sideloading.

Also , the CQR was worse than useless in kelp.

Good to hear work is progressing on your new ship.

If your anchor ALWAYS comes up back to front, or sideways, the chances are you have a twist in the chain.

Check the links from the gypsy to the anchor - there should be no 'roll' - if there is it will ALWAYS come up incorrectly.

Simple to change, cut one link off - if it has a half roll.


If you anchor and chain are correctly aligned

Its common after a couple of years for the first link of the chain, or first three (or more) to show preferential corrosion. The obvious answer is to cut the link off.

If you cut one link off - then if your anchor and chain were aligned correctly - its now incorrect. If you cut off 3 links - its now incorrect.

You could buy a swivel or simpler, cheaper and safer - cut off an even number of links.

Jonathan
 
If your anchor ALWAYS comes up back to front, or sideways, the chances are you have a twist in the chain.

Check the links from the gypsy to the anchor - there should be no 'roll' - if there is it will ALWAYS come up incorrectly.

Simple to change, cut one link off - if it has a half roll.
I must be missing something here - why not just spin the chain on the gypsy/roller?
 
I must be missing something here - why not just spin the chain on the gypsy/roller?

I have posted on this several times. It is not easy to do on our boat and Jill cannot manage it. She is the foredeck crew, her choice when hauling anchor, which means that she has to come back to the helm, I go forward to twist the anchor over, quite tricky to do. A swivel makes it all so much easier.

Jonathan and I are poles apart on swivels. I went a season without one for a trial and found anchoring performance and convenience to be markedly reduced, so I went back to one. My philosophy is - if you need one, use one. If you don't, don't. I bought one originally because my windlass manufacturer, Maxwell, recommended it.
 
I must be missing something here - why not just spin the chain on the gypsy/roller?

Just think of a links in the chain, they can be vertical or horizontal - or that's how they exit from our gypsy. if you have a groove in your bow roller - that's how they should stay.

The shackle needs to be horizontal in the shank (or I cannot think of any anchor that takes a shackle oreintated vertically), so it needs to be connected to a vertical link. If it is connected to a horizontal link it, the anchor, will ALWAYS come up sideways (unless the chain twists between roller and gypsy).

Simple stuff.

Jonathan

edit - you could roll the chain, but then the chain will ALWAYS be twisted, which, I guess will preferetially wear the gypsy. Seems simpler and more sensible to chop one link off. close edit.
 
And for Vyv, if you use Norman's bent link or a Boomerang you would not need a swivel. You do need 'room' between anchor shank and gypsy to use such a device - so it does not suit all.

But if you insist - make sure its a good one - the only good ones I see cost as much as an anchor! But good swivels are much easier to acquire than good foredeck hands - so investing in a swivel can save much anguish. I know this - as I'm foredeck for anchor retrieval :)

We both know the 'weakness' of buying a cheap swivel. :(

Jonathan
 
At the start of each year, assuming that you have treated your chain to the "pallet" treatment, the way the chain goes onto the gypsy has a 25% chance of being correct. If you find that your anchor ALWAYS comes up (for instance) 180° out, surely it's a simple matter of turning the chain on the gypsy. I don't see where cutting odd links off the chain is necessary.

Personally, I find that my anchor varies in the way it faces when it approaches the surface, so I have a bent link shackled to the anchor, which as soon as it hits the bow roller, automatically rotates the anchor to the correct orientation. It's such a simple thing, and is 100% reliable. Ask my wife, as it is she who does the anchoring.:D
 
Just think of a links in the chain, they can be vertical or horizontal - or that's how they exit from our gypsy. if you have a groove in your bow roller - that's how they should stay.

The shackle needs to be horizontal in the shank (or I cannot think of any anchor that takes a shackle oreintated vertically), so it needs to be connected to a vertical link. If it is connected to a horizontal link it, the anchor, will ALWAYS come up sideways (unless the chain twists between roller and gypsy).

Simple stuff.

Jonathan

edit - you could roll the chain, but then the chain will ALWAYS be twisted, which, I guess will preferetially wear the gypsy. Seems simpler and more sensible to chop one link off. close edit.
still makes no sense, in the gypsy the chain can be oriented by 90degs, same as a bow roller with a groove , why cut a link off when you can just twist the chain in the gypsy to achieve the same result?
 
Norman,

Depends on which is easier, turning the chain in the windlass or chopping a link off the chain, invariably that first link is pretty manky anyway and needs chopped off every 2 or 3 years.

Each to their own.

How you get there does not really matter - just check and rectify (if necessary)

Jonathan
 
I have posted on this several times. It is not easy to do on our boat and Jill cannot manage it.
That makes sense, what doesn't is cutting a link off instead of spinning the chain by 90deg.
i have a chain grab just in front of the windlass as well which helps if the chain does ever jump and need reset on the gypsy.
 
Actually GHA its easier for me, whose windlass is below deck, to chop a link off than grovel about with a gypsy below deck level. Chopping a link off, should I need to do it, takes me a few seconds.

As I said, whatever works for you - there is usually more than one correct solution and hopefully I'm prepared to accept other options may suit others - the merit of these threads is they can be explored, hopefully, relatively politely.

Jonathan
 
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