Moving up

[Croozer]

Hi all.
I have been enjoying the forum for a while now and I have decided to join up and hopefully take part in some of the chat on the Motor Boat Forum.

I have just sold my much loved fairline Phantom 46 after being pestered by a boating buddy who wanted to move up to a flybridge. My friend had helmed "Just Croozin" a few times and found it easier than his sports cruiser and once he heard I was selling her would "take her off my hands".
A deal was struck without broker or survey fees and all thats left is the registration process which he has handed to a solicitor with both of us agreeing to go 50 / 50.

Where to go from here?

I have always hankered after a Phantom 50 or a Squadron 58 but have recently been offered a 2007 Sealine T60 at current advertised price of a 2007 Phantom 50.

Make no mistake, I'm in no hurry but I would like to secure a deal before March 2010.

Any comments from the forum?

Any other makes I should look at?

My preference is to stay with a British brand and Volvo engines (in this case D12s).

 

[Nick_H]

Welcome to the forum, and congratulations on selling your Phantom. I don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong with the T60, but the styling and layout is not to everyone's taste, and the Sealine brand on bigger boats hasn't really taken off. If you like the styling and layout, plan to keep it for a while, and the deal is good, then why not? On the other hand, if you want to be able to move it on quickly when the time comes then i'd think again.

Where are you boating? A 60 footer is big in the UK, and stops you going to certain places, so personally i'd stick with a smaller boat here. In the western med it's different, most places are set up for big boats.

 

[Croozer]

Hi Nick _H.

I am based in Ireland and cruise any where from The Clyde to SW Ireland taking in SW England once and North Wales a couple of times.

I plan more of the same but with more time on my hands lately I would like to explore S England & Channel Is next year.

Youre thinking resale value, right?

I was thinking the same as it dosen't make sense that one can purchase a 2007 60 footer for the price of a 2007 50 footer. This would suggest that the Phantom has the better resale value however on the other hand it might just suggest an anxious seller (T60) v an optimistic valuation (P50).

Layout wise I am not too bothered really however I have yet to inspect the T60 but I have drooled over many a Phantom 50 at the usual boat shows. The layout of the T60 looks good in the drawings however I am a little unsure about the position of the galley.

Which one would the family like do you think?

Size wise for berthing shouldn't really pose a great problem as we tend to stick to the larger marinas unless stopping for fuel which I must admit has been a problem even with the 46.

I am enjoying the decision making process. I made a good choice with the 46 so I hope to be as wise before signing up again.


All good stuff Nick_H and thank you for taking the time to respond.

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

if you want Volvo and UK build boat I would look at a Princess 50 MkII or MkIII or a 54...
IMO the Princess 50 if it is a mk.II is a bit inferior to the Fairline 50 Phantom mostly because of bunk third cabin
also the ride of the 50 Phantom is much more cleaner & leveled and I always heard good things on that boat, a Princess 50 Mk.I with big Volvos which I helmed had a pretty nose high ride and did slam a bit with 4 feet plus wave
OTOH the Mk.III and 54 have both full beam owners cabin so might feel a bit of more a change to your 46 Phantom...

 

[Croozer]

The Princess 50 MkIII looks very interesting and a viable alternative. I have not seen one in the flesh but a google shows a modern internal design while retaining the classic Princess look.

Prices seem high compared to the others I have mentioned but yes I will have a look.

Thank you for your suggestion.

 

[aquatom]

Sorry to say it but you get what you pay for. In my mind the Fairline is of far superior quality than Sealine and Princess. I would go for a Fairline Phantom 50 or a Sunseeker Manhattan 50.

Hope that hasn't upset to many people........

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

the 50 Manhattan actually is only worth it for its full beam owners cabin and richer interior fit out, but its ride at any sea is worse to a Princess 50 Mk.I, and honestly in the same sea I would take the Princess with deeper forward vee shape
yes the 50 Phantom is a good all rounder, but there is not much dividing the three top British motor boat builders, and even Sealine does not offer so much of a bad product

 

[Croozer]

Quick update seeing as I am on the forum.

T60 seller is sticking to price which is to be expected. Phantom 50 has reduced slightly but might be more interested when he learns that I have the nod from the bank . I have called a broker regarding a Princess 50 with the full width master so let's see what they come up with.

I still hanker after the Phantom 50 as I believe (rightly or wrongly) that the hull is more suitable for UK waters, however I fear that my wife might be swayed by the internal set up of T60.

I will be careful with my posts on this thread now just in case any of the above read this forum

Thanks to above for taking the time to reply.

 

[Nick_H]

The extra weight and hull length of the T60 would more than make up for any better hull shape on the Phantom 50 in terms of handling bigger seas IMO. The Phantom is a great choice for lots of reasons, but not because it will handle rough weather better than a T60.

 

[[2068]]

The 26,000kg Sealine is going to flatten waves more effectively than 17,000kg of Fairline, whatever the merits of the various hull shapes (which aren't very different, apart from that the Fairline does have a deeper forefoot).

The Sealine might take a bit longer to sell on afterwards, but when is buying something like this ever a logical decision?

Buy whatever it is you most want to be in.

dv.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

IMHO, the Phantom 50 doesn't give you much more than the Phantom 46 other than a bit more space whereas the Princess 50 Mk3 gives you that large mid cabin which is worth upgrading for. But, if you're happy to go for a 60 footer, then a Sq58 would be well worth looking at. It's a big step up in size and interior finish compared to the Phantom 50 and it is one of Fairline's most popular models, which means that, if you go for a older Sq58, you should lose less money in depreciation than a younger Phantom 50.
Regretably, I agree with NickH on the Sealine T60. Sealine make good boats but their brand is not viewed by the market as being as prestigious as Fairline and Princess so the T60 could be harder to sell on when you want rid.
You might also want to look at the Azimut 50/55 models and, as a left field choice, the Pearl 55 is a worth considering

 

[Croozer]

mmm, my inexperience is starting to show

I was so happy with the way my old Phantom 46 handled some horrible sea and is a better than a friends T52. Even he agrees to the point that a Phantom 50 is on his wish list when he decides to sell. In that particular scenario the weight offered no advantage. Maybe P46 & T52 similar weight?

Mike F, thank you for your thoughts but I disagree with you. The P50 will be a considerable upgrade volume wise imo. Even the showers are bigger and three double cabins as well. Azimut is a lovely boat but I feel more comfortable staying with the UK brands. Pearl, now theres a new name to ponder over. The Squadron 58 is my absolute dream boat but I would have to go for a 2005 model unless a 2006 comes up at the right price. I will however keep searching and bargening so you never know The Princess 50 MkIII get's another vote so it must be a serious contender.

The Sealine only came about after the broker advised of a very motivated seller and cannot be ignored for that reason. Sealine seem to enjoy good brand loyalty as well and I know a couple of happy owners.

I hope I am not boring the forum with this subject as it is starting to look very self indulgant however I am enjoying the debate

 

[mainshiptom]

.
I hope I am not boring the forum with this subject as it is starting to look very self indulgant however I am enjoying the debate

Never boring , keep it up !

I wish I was in your shoes.

Tom

 

[miket]

Flybridge

I assume you are only interested in a flybridge configuration?
The Broom and Atlantic 50 footers (both full width aft cabin and Command bridge boats) both offer huge internal accommodation, very respectable 30 knot performance and high quality throughout. Contemporary interrior styling is also available if required.
As for seakeeping? A recent article following a Broom 50 around the UK is self evident.

 

[spinreach]

Pearl, now theres a new name to ponder over. The Squadron 58 is my absolute dream boat but I would have to go for a 2005 model unless a 2006 comes up at the right price. I will however keep searching and bargening so you never know The Princess 50 MkIII get's another vote so it must be a serious contender.

[/QUOTE]

What a fantastic position to be in. One day may it come to all of us, in the meantime we can prepare ourselves in weighing up the options! After my visit to LIBS last year, I felt I had mismanaged my time in that although I got to see a lot of the main brands, I saw too much variety - I think I should have focused on a certain size and compared around that.

Having said that, I did manage to get on the Aura T60 at Tower Bridge and followed that with views of the Squadron and Manhattan. I was really impressed with the Aura, I thought better than the squady and manhattan - the swept back arch makes such a difference and the fit out is impressive, but I guess it's not an Aura that is the option.

This time at LIBS I'm going to make the effort of a comprehensive comparison circa the 60' range. I really want to see the Pearl 60 as that could be my dream boat.

Not really added anything here to the original question, but I am finding the thread interesting because don't we alll aspire to a 60 footer?

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

have to disagree with many comments here on length and displacement...
while this surely helps for a boat to be good, you need a good shaped bottom joined with slick weight distribution, and correct engines position
I have seen forty footers who handled seas as good as sixty footer, and I mean planning boat versus planning...

 

[Nick_H]

have to disagree with many comments here on length and displacement...

I'm not sure you're disagreeing with anyone. Generally, I think most of us would accept it's possible for a shorter lighter boat with a great hull to handle big seas better than a longer heavier boat with a poor hull.

The comments were not general though, they were quite specific, that we thought a Sealine T60 will handle big seas better (on average) than a Phantom 50. Do you disagree with that?

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

have to drive both boats to give a general commment on these

have driven a Fairline 50 Phantom, but never a Sealine T60 so I cannot say
did a Sealine T50 in Force 3 to 4 (4ft waves the most) and that did not impress me much a tad too much riding high boat IMO and in bigger seas would suffer a bit, OTOH the old T51/52 was not a bad boat

 

[Croozer]

Just to add to the confusion, the T60 has Caterpillar engines, not Volvo D12's as I was informed by the broker

Looking at replies above it seems that there may be little to choose between them with regard to seakeeping?

Thank you all and I will keep you posted.

 

[Croozer]

I have now discovered that the T60 is not VAT paid as I have been quoted. That's another 21% on the selling price and I have ruled this one out.

I have looked at a nice 2006 Phantom 50 with D12 715hp. She has 340 + hours logged and comes with a good spec. Only missing is air con & passerelle as far as I can see. Receipts for servicing at 50, 100 & 200 hrs from VP dealer. Looking good so far except...

HIN which is stamped on the stbd side of bathing platform is damaged and un-readable

VP engine manuals & receipts, insurance cert, original boat sales invoice all match up with engines installed.

In fairness HIN is in an exposed area - should I be suspicious?