Moving from Power to Sail - Boat Advice Required

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Simon391088

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Hi,

We've had a 38ft motor boat for 5 years and have visited France, Channel Islands, West Coast and everywhere in the Solent.

It's been great fun, but for various reasons I plan to switch to Sail this year.

I've never actually sailed before, but i'll get training for this.

I know the nav stuff as i've done Day Skipper Practical and Theory for motor and have no problem with paper charts and tidal planning etc.

The question is which boat to get.
I would really like a boat that can take the ground, so I can both get a cheap swinging mooring and also don't have to worry about losing depth in Newtown Creek etc. However twin keels don't seem that popular.
Do you need twin keels for a swinging mooring?

The best thing about our current boat is there are 5 berths in 2 cabins. I don't want people sleeping in the Saloon and there are 5 of us.

Please let me know what you think we should go for. <60k
Something easy to sail singlehanded for a beginner would be good.

Any advice welcome,

Simon
 
For the sort of boat you are looking at I would suggest that a drying mooring is not the best solution, too much of a problem shipping 5 crew to and from the thing at the right times and the boat will be on the big side for the types generally available. I would seek out an all tide mooring. That being the case you may review the need for twin keels - coming from power you might be apprehensive but most people get by with deep keels and seldom think about it. OTOH if you have a positive need and desire for a boat that can dry out all is good, but think it over.

There are loads of boats in the 35foot range with twin aft cabins that may suit, I would view as many as possible. Some of them have hopeless storage for longer trips so check that out. If you find a boat with limited accommodation for it's size it is generally a better sailing boat. Huge cabins = less performance but they don't tell you that in the brochure.

It's great fun, keep us posted
 
Agree with Doug above. OP will struggle to find a twin keeled monohull for the price he expects to pay (ie a newish boat) or at the size he needs. A boat big enough for him will be a bit big for many drying moorings. Much better to look at all tide or better pontoon berths and the (huge) fin keeled AWB market. Look for shoal or lift keels if worried about draft but that's not as much a problem as he expects.

Dunno the cat market but I suspect one that meets his expectations of newishness/comparable to a modern MOBO will bust the budget.
 
If you really want or need shallow draught have a look at http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/boats/s26215/s26215.htm.

Otherwise many many fin keel alternatives available, if you look for modernish cruisers with twin aft cabins, plus forepeak berths.

There are very few modern bilge-keelers, the last of them were some Moodys and the UK-built Hunter Legends. A 1990s era Moody 36 might slightly stretch your price range but has two good doubles and one single berth without touching the saloon, and they did build them with bilge keels.
 
I would suggest doing a charter first, as sailing and MOBOing are quite different beasts in some ways.
I know a few ex-MOBO people who do seem to have a hard time adapting to the massively greater passage times.
If you actually enjoy the time at sea, and the challenge of getting a boat well trimmed and performing at its best, then you'll probably be fine. But if you see passages as the inconvenient bits between visiting places, it could fail to live up expectations.
 
Simon391088 said:
Hi,

We've had a 38ft motor boat for 5 years and have visited France, Channel Islands, West Coast and everywhere in the Solent.

It's been great fun, but for various reasons I plan to switch to Sail this year.

I've never actually sailed before, but i'll get training for this.

I know the nav stuff as i've done Day Skipper Practical and Theory for motor and have no problem with paper charts and tidal planning etc.

The question is which boat to get.
I would really like a boat that can take the ground, so I can both get a cheap swinging mooring and also don't have to worry about losing depth in Newtown Creek etc. However twin keels don't seem that popular.
Do you need twin keels for a swinging mooring?

The best thing about our current boat is there are 5 berths in 2 cabins. I don't want people sleeping in the Saloon and there are 5 of us.

Please let me know what you think we should go for. <60k
Something easy to sail singlehanded for a beginner would be good.

Any advice welcome,

Simon
Click to expand...

I always give the same advice: charter before you buy. Your initial thoughts may well change.
 
I'm another supporter of the idea of chartering first before buying. Assuming that works out well, my suggestion would be to look at a fin keel boat in the 35 to 40 foot range. There are masses from which to choose, maybe 10 to 15 years old but often still in very reasonable condition. For example the Sun Odyssey 37 sold in large numbers and now fall within your budget. At this size you can find 3 cabin versions (two aft, one in the bows) that fit your bedding requirements. There are some lift keel variants if you really need a shallow draft, but for sailing ability you cannot beat a good simple single fixed keel. The SO37s were easy to handle for an average couple, solid enough not to frighten novices and light enough for easy string-pulling.
 
This is a question that has been asked many times previously and I always end up feeling vaguely sorry for the OP who is faced with lots of different and sometimes conflicting comments. Trouble is, different people have different opinions and what we would chose isnt necessarily what best suits the OP.

So I would definitely be in the charter / flotilla / join a yacht club group. The OP needs to try all sorts of different boats to find out what floats his boat and thats best done in other peoples equipment. I would strongly recommend joining a club because that offers the opportunity of looking at and maybe sailing in lots of different boats.

A 39ft mobo will likely have far more internal volume than a 39ft monohull yacht and there are no decent 39ft bilge keelers anyway. So if the motive for the change is part the cost of running a mobo ( as suggested by the preference for a swinging mooring) then a 39ft or bigger monohull on a pontoon berth isnt likely to fill the bill. The suggestion of a cat is a good one
 
birdseye said:
The suggestion of a cat is a good one
Click to expand...

but not with a budget of £60k.

Actually the advice so far has been pretty consistent and relax the constraint of a drying mooring, which as others have pointed out is probably impractical for the size of boat he needs, and he has an enormous choice of suitable boats.
 
All of the above.
Try other people's boats and see what you like and dislike.
Do not rush the decision until you are totally certain.

You are going to compromise on the space that you will find on boats that are in your budget. Generally considerably less volume than equivalent length motor.

Do try and see if sailing works for you and your companions. You might be a bit shocked about the relatively long time it takes to get to places. Everywhere is a long way at 5 or 6 knots.
Also cold and wet come as standard options.

Also recognise that cost saving and boating of any sort rarely occur in the same sentence. You will wake up and realise the truth of your predicament.

As a long term bilge keel sailor it does have some advantages, but there is a compromise on performance.
 
Hi All,

Thanks for the comments.
Cat's are a good idea but I couldn't get one as I'm not good at planning in advance and cats take up too much room for that last minute berth.

I have no problem with the slower speed of sailing boats.

I am looking at legend yachts but they seem to hold a high price.
I saw a great looking 'sirius' yacht which had a covered cockpit.

i'll keep you posted if I get anywhere!

Thanks
Simon
 
I thought I'd replied to this thread: obviously I didn't.

If I didn't have bluewater ambitions (so far I haven't even realised my westfield ones) I would be looking at a twin keeler so sympathise with the OP's intentions. Not such a big deal for the solent (except summer weekends at Newtown when we're all jealous of those that can take the ground) but for the south west and brittany the expansion of possibilities seems huge and a little less performance would seem a fair price to pay if you're already stepping down from a motorboat.

The big problem is the "3 cabins" thing. Excluding fancy lift-keel southerlies, ovnis etc which are way out of budget, all the twin keel boats I've seen are maximum of aft cabin and forepeak. I would have thought 10 year old legends were within budget with a big of negotiation but TBH I found the fit-out on them a bit rubbish. If it were me I'd be looking at older westerlies and Moodies: Going well within budget allows you to pick a prime, re-engined, well maintained example and have cash left over for further enhancements. But none of the twin keel westerlies I can think of had 3 cabins (even my Oceanlord doesn't have 3 cabins!)

Is there a 3 cabin twin keel legend?

The problem with chartering before you buy is finding an example of the model you're thinking of buying...
 
I think you folks have misunderstood one thing the OP said.

He has never sailed before..meaning he cannot charter. Also meaning that how does he know what good feels like on a yacht.

The only things he can do is to choose a level of accommodation that suits and then get advice on the models he has chosen.

It takes a long time to to get to know what a good yacht and a bad yacht feel like.
 
Beneteau Oceanis 361 with a lift keel. They did make a three cabin version. For example:

http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/boats/s26215/s26215.htm

When converting from mobo to sail perhaps it's better to go for a yacht from one of the main brands such as Beneteau so that if it doesn't suit, you have a well established resale market (to trade out, or up). We're on our sixth Beneteau brand boat and none have taken longer than a few months to sell after sensible pricing and careful maintenance.

However, I can understand the attraction of Legend yachts which are closer to a mobo fit out than most other yachts. Not sure that the bigger ones have bilge keels. However, they did have shallow keel options so you may be surprised how they can get in to shallow harbours etc.

Since you are switching from power to sail, maybe best to go for a non racey sailboat so as not to put the crew off sailing with wet cockpits, heeling, and constant sail adjustments. Also, racey sailboats often have the deepest keels.

Interested in how you progress.

Garold
 
If you want a boat that takes the ground correctly - ie does not need legs then take a look at the Southerly 115 which fits your budget - the later Series 2 onwards has a better keel shape and sailing performance. The Southerly has a large cast iron grounding plate which sits on the bottom and the rudder is protected.
 
E39mad said:
If you want a boat that takes the ground correctly - ie does not need legs then take a look at the Southerly 115 which fits your budget - the later Series 2 onwards has a better keel shape and sailing performance. The Southerly has a large cast iron grounding plate which sits on the bottom and the rudder is protected.
Click to expand...

+1

As the owner of a 115. Mark 3 I was thinking of our boat as I read the thread.

The budget would push you to an older one but really solidly built

I note the desire to sleep 5 without using the saloon - the aft cabin is big enough to sleep 3 easily.
 
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