Motorboat replacement engines project and a bit of a refit.

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burgundyben

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I bought this boat a few months ago, not many were built, I had a single engine one and wanted a twin, as far as I know, there is only 2 or 3 twin engine ones.

Its a Fairey Bulldog, 31ft, she sank in late 2015, the engines have run since, but she's been ashore a while and they don't run now. Port one delivers fuel to the injectors, oil pressure builds, but when it tries to fire it make the most appalling clonking noise and won't start. The stbd one has the injection pump full of brass filings.... The design dates back to the 1960's, this pair have been in the boat since at least 1999, several years in commercial service.

Ready to come out.

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Replacement is a pair of Cummins 4B, same weight, same capacity, same HP at same RPM. The Cummins 4B is a huge step forward having been a new clean sheet design in production in 1985. Its a mechanical engine.
 
You should be OK as the engines are the same capacity and power, but worth double-checking that you aren't tripping up on the RCD rules as a "major conversion" as this could cause big problems down the line. I don't think it's a factor, just wanted to flag it. We have been looking at imported boats recently, hence it is on my mind.....
 
Moodysailor said:
You should be OK as the engines are the same capacity and power, but worth double-checking that you aren't tripping up on the RCD rules as a "major conversion" as this could cause big problems down the line. I don't think it's a factor, just wanted to flag it. We have been looking at imported boats recently, hence it is on my mind.....
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Built in 1979, so RCD not relevant I think, she has been commercially coded in the past, in Scilly as a Brhyer taxi, in Dartmouth as a dive fishing charter boat and most recently in portsmouth as a ferry for a charity taking kids on the water.
 
burgundyben said:
Built in 1979, so RCD not relevant I think, she has been commercially coded in the past, in Scilly as a Brhyer taxi, in Dartmouth as a dive fishing charter boat and most recently in portsmouth as a ferry for a charity taking kids on the water.
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The major conversion clause doesn't have any relevance to the year built, and it's this that has the potential to catch some people out. I don't think it's an issue for you, but I wanted to clarify that the year the vessel was built doesn't matter - if you trigger a major conversion clause, then a PCA (post construction assessment) will be needed for CE approval. Major pain, and possibly big bucks....
 
Stemar said:
Will CE approval be needed post Brexit?
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If the owner wants to take the vessel into any European country it will need CE approval, or a British equivalent that is accepted by the Euro-powers. I think we all know that this won't have been looked into yet, and probably isn't high on the priority list....
This aspect of CE regulation is an odd policy as historically the IMO (whom the RCD gets their guidance from) have been very good with the grandfather clause (that is - if the rule that was in effect at the time was followed, then it stays accepted moving forwards). I'm not sure who decided on the major conversion clause as the wording seems 'suitably vague' in that it could end up being a matter of interpretation rather than applied policy. I totally get it for commercial vessels, but it seems a bit too much for the leisure industry.
 
Moodysailor said:
The major conversion clause doesn't have any relevance to the year built, and it's this that has the potential to catch some people out. I don't think it's an issue for you, but I wanted to clarify that the year the vessel was built doesn't matter - if you trigger a major conversion clause, then a PCA (post construction assessment) will be needed for CE approval. Major pain, and possibly big bucks....
Click to expand...

I find it hard to believe that anyone would consider that replacing the engines with similar horsepower engines could conceivably be interpreted as a "major conversion". Sailboats are routinely re-engined with no problems.
 
Moodysailor said:
If the owner wants to take the vessel into any European country it will need CE approval, or a British equivalent that is accepted by the Euro-powers. I think we all know that this won't have been looked into yet, and probably isn't high on the priority list....
This aspect of CE regulation is an odd policy as historically the IMO (whom the RCD gets their guidance from) have been very good with the grandfather clause (that is - if the rule that was in effect at the time was followed, then it stays accepted moving forwards). I'm not sure who decided on the major conversion clause as the wording seems 'suitably vague' in that it could end up being a matter of interpretation rather than applied policy. I totally get it for commercial vessels, but it seems a bit too much for the leisure industry.
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Ridiculous over caution. How would anyone ever know and who is there to check? Especially on a pre CE boat. Not a chance of it being a problem.
 
pvb said:
I find it hard to believe that anyone would consider that replacing the engines with similar horsepower engines could conceivably be interpreted as a "major conversion". Sailboats are routinely re-engined with no problems.
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What is the requirement for approving replacement engines? If there's no increase in power and no issues with weight/buoyancy, don't you just document all that, and job done?
 
pvb said:
I find it hard to believe that anyone would consider that replacing the engines with similar horsepower engines could conceivably be interpreted as a "major conversion". Sailboats are routinely re-engined with no problems.
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I did explicitly state in my original reply that whilst I didn't think his would be an issue (for the reasons you state) - it would be prudent on the OP to check anyway.
Don't shoot the messenger here, there is probably nothing to worry about, all I advised is that it's better to be safe than sorry. I'm sure all of the repliers above who unequivocally state that there won't be a problem would be more than happy to offer their legal and financial support in case of a dispute....... or not.....you lot just seem love to rattling on the keyboard and jumping down each other's throats.
Either way, checking is free and should just take a bit of googling, or a call to CEProof or one of the other companies to confirm. No harm, no foul at this stage.
 
penberth3 said:
What is the requirement for approving replacement engines? If there's no increase in power and no issues with weight/buoyancy, don't you just document all that, and job done?
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I'd expect that to be the case, but Moodysailor seemed to think it was a problem.
 
Moodysailor said:
I did explicitly state in my original reply that whilst I didn't think his would be an issue (for the reasons you state) - it would be prudent on the OP to check anyway.
Don't shoot the messenger here, there is probably nothing to worry about, all I advised is that it's better to be safe than sorry. I'm sure all of the repliers above who unequivocally state that there won't be a problem would be more than happy to offer their legal and financial support in case of a dispute....... or not.....you lot just seem love to rattling on the keyboard and jumping down each other's throats.
Either way, checking is free and should just take a bit of googling, or a call to CEProof or one of the other companies to confirm. No harm, no foul at this stage.
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Why would anyone go out of their way to involve officialdom?
 
pvb said:
I'd expect that to be the case, but Moodysailor seemed to think it was a problem.
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Quite literally the opposite of what I said. I refer you to my first post on the subject

Moodysailor said:
You should be OK as the engines are the same capacity and power, but worth double-checking that you aren't tripping up on the RCD rules as a "major conversion" as this could cause big problems down the line. I don't think it's a factor, just wanted to flag it. We have been looking at imported boats recently, hence it is on my mind.....
Click to expand...
 
pvb said:
Why would anyone go out of their way to involve officialdom?
Click to expand...
CEProof are not "officaldom", they are a private company who specialise in knowing these complex and fairly vague rules quite well - other companies are available. And last I checked, googling does not incur the wrath of any officials either.
I suggest you get back in your box and stop trying to antagonise.
 
Moodysailor said:
CEProof are not "officaldom", they are a private company who specialise in knowing these complex and fairly vague rules quite well - other companies are available. And last I checked, googling does not incur the wrath of any officials either.
I suggest you get back in your box and stop trying to antagonise.
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On the contrary, I think you were antagonistic in suggesting in the first place that simple re-engining was a potential problem!
 
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