"motor sailing" what's that all about?

[Tintin]

<snip>

This is becoming worse than a MOBO v's Yachty thread, we all go to the sea for different reasons accept it...

Err, I do, but some on this thread seem to think, based upon their "extensive" experience, that motor sailing is akin to eating your own offspring, and have adopted a holier than thou arrogance, which is what I despise. Each to their own though I guess.....

 

[Nicholas123]

So an unpleasant 9 hours "motoring" is the sum total of your experience of "motor sailing", and why you have waded into a thread to give us the benefit of your extensive experience? Really?

Check your dictionary pal - this ain't masochism

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It is'nt just about motor sailing I would'nt want to be doing 28 hours "short handed" in the channel full stop.I'd be knackered my judgement would be impaired & that sounds dangerous to me.What happens if the weather changes/you run into a lobster pot or something?(& that is setting aside all the traffic in what is considered to be the most congested part of the world for shipping).
Looks nice in your photo but it is'nt always like that is it!
I "waded in" directly in response to the original posters specific circumstances but your arrogance was rather like a red rag to a bull.

 

[jac]

I'm very confused by all this. Surely the idea of owning a boat is to enjoy it. If you derive enjoyment from it you're using it properly, if you don't you aren't. It's not complicated.

+1

If you enjoy tinkering with your boat whilst she is ashore and she is rarely afloat then that's right for you. If you sail everywhere and only have an engine as it's handy ballast then that's also fine. As long as you're not spoiling someone else's day.

What ever happend to live and let live. (Except for jet ski drivers of course.)

 

[Tintin]

It is'nt just about motor sailing I would'nt want to be doing 28 hours "short handed" in the channel full stop.I'd be knackered my judgement would be impaired & that sounds dangerous to me.What happens if the weather changes/you run into a lobster pot or something?(& that is setting aside all the traffic in what is considered to be the most congested part of the world for shipping).
Looks nice in your photo but it is'nt always like that is it!
I "waded in" directly in response to the original posters specific circumstances but your arrogance was rather like a red rag to a bull.

Gosh, you are still confusing "motoring" with "motor sailing" - the two are different.

A bit of thread drift to counter the "scared to sail / fear" comments you make...

Weather change? - you check forecasts before going out, you have a well found boat, kit to help you in bad weather (storm sails, jordan drogue etc..), clean fuel tanks (so chop doesn't kick up the crud and block filters), engine spares, sail repair stuff etc... etc... - in fact no different to a few hours in the solent. In fact many reckon you are safer in a blow at sea than close to coast, me included. Do you only ever sail when the weather is peachy? If so then you are putting yourself at risk because one day it will blow up and you will be woefully unprepared.

Lobster pot? thankfully there are few mid channel but there are other hazards to the prop. On this trip I got a load of sea weed wrapped around the prop as I was getting close to one of the regular shipping lanes with about six "bandits" showing on the ais / radar / Mk 1 eyeball. I stopped the engine, radio'ed the closet one up to let them know I was stationary, then got on with clearing it. Tried reverse and fwd but still clogged, so took a swim with a bread knife, mask and snorkel, roped on. Problem sorted in 30 mins, and I knew I had what I needed to solve it because I had practised it in the past - it's all about preparation and risk management - no need to be scared, but you should always take fear with you (I think Robin Knox-Johnson said that too). Had I not cleared it or the engine had got buggerred then it would have been a reach to Roscoff, or turn tale and home, or a much slower journey with a stop probably at Baie du Stiff or Lampaul waiting for the tied thru, rather than heading into the wind motorsailing.


The traffic is not as bad as some would have you think - you just need to know what you are doing. Only once have I had to shine a torch on sails to get attention. Fog can be daunting but it is manageable - just learn what to do and apply the rules. Again AIS and radar help.

On tiredness, much is written on this, but a kitchen timer set at 15 or 20 mins work for me nicely, although I feel a bit spaced the next day on land. Good pilotage and passage planning is key, having it written down, with your options. Trying to work it out when tired can leave you open to making mistakes.

Nicholasxyz - get yourself out sailing, leave the solent, go do it, live!

 

[Nico]

It sounds to me that you went sailing with people whose ideas don't match with yours.
I probably agree with you but they may equally think my idea of a good day on the water racing round a few triangles is silly.
Maybe they just don't 'get' sailing as we know it?

It sounds to me like you went sailing with people who weren't too confident or competent with the actual "sailing" bit of sailing, and who interpreted your desire to switch the engine off as some sort of purist attitude which would just extend their time in uncomfortable conditions. I took up racing because I got fed up with people just putting the engine on not only when it was too light, but when it was blowing a bit hard. I soon learnt how to sail and make ground upwind, and point high and I'm not happy running the engine when heeled over anyway. I'm no engineer but I understand that running a diesel with insufficient load will cause the bores to glaze over. Much like mentioning racing on this forum then.

 

[capnsensible]

So how many tide gates did you need to meet & are those drying harbours? Of course not! Different forms of sailing require different techniques. Engines don't help much on an ocean passage, but can make a huge difference when coastal cruising with limited free time available.

Your experience may have been wonderful, but it is actually irrelevant to the thread, thank you.

Why is it irrelevant?? Both are using engines to get somewhere before time runs out.

 

[Tomahawk]

agree with the above

Left this morning along side a Dutchman.. no wind so both motoring at the same speed to eithin a nats..
half way here the breeze picked up a bit.. We both deployed sails..
I gained a knott and made it to the harbour entrance just as the tide turned against me.. The Dutchie was totally out of sight... the tide is now building against him.. I am off for a well earned beer.....

Was it as anjoyanle as sailing... no way, but I am tired and simpky wanted to get this trip oveer and done..

 

[rotrax]

Btw when did you last sail onto your marina berth?

Not allowed in most marina's that I know of!

 

[Tomahawk]

Would not dream of it..

not bieig able to sail onto a marina berth is about the only downside of a proper boat...

 

[dunedin]

Sounds like you were not motorsailing, but motoring with the sails set. Using a combination of sails and motor can be a good technique in certain conditions, particularly if there are adverse conditions or meeting a tidal gate where the additional speed or finer course possible can make a significant difference to passage times.

I have been cogitating on this and wonder if this only applies with slowish sailing boats at least in flattish water Need to work out the maths, but we have never found the conditions yet where motor sailing helps (as opposed to motoring with mainsail still up).

Generally if reaching then can sail near to true wind speed if this is over 7 knots, with apparent rising to 10 or so. If light winds unr 6 knots then motor sailing would bring apparent wind to close ahead, not filling sails effectively.
So my conclusion motor sailing works for motor sailers not fast cruisers

 

[jerrytug]

I spent two months cruising France Belgium and Dutch canals,and my cone was up the whole time I never bothered to take it off. I only moved with the engine switched off when sailing along the coast,and nobody stood on to me as if I was a PDV.
Now back in England,the cone is in the bilges as usual!

 

[Twister_Ken]

I have been cogitating on this and wonder if this only applies with slowish sailing boats at least in flattish water Need to work out the maths, but we have never found the conditions yet where motor sailing helps (as opposed to motoring with mainsail still up).

Generally if reaching then can sail near to true wind speed if this is over 7 knots, with apparent rising to 10 or so. If light winds unr 6 knots then motor sailing would bring apparent wind to close ahead, not filling sails effectively.
So my conclusion motor sailing works for motor sailers not fast cruisers

Works for me - a fast cruiser. Light air - less than 6 kts say - from the beam or aft of it has me sailing at around three knots. Enough motor (maybe 1500rpm) to bring the apparent ahead of the beam and up it to - say - 10 kts, has me motorsailing at 6kts. Only thing to mention is that it's worth setting an instrument to show true wind, as if it builds while you're motorsailing you might miss the blessed point where the donkey can put back in the stable.

 

[Seajet]

Dunedin,

cogitate a bit more !

Motoring does bring the apparent wind more ahead, but a light wind on the beam and even my 5hp engine going ( hardly a motor sailer ) with what then becomes an efficient fine reach is a quicker way to cross the Channel or make tidal gates like Lyme Bay.

Not as pleasant as pure sailing and may involve the autopilot, but it gets the journey done in sensible time rather than taking the hair shirt option, which I've found most girlfriends and wives - and myself as middle age sets in - take a dim view of !

 

[SteveSarabande]

I motor sail if I need to make a destination within a tidal window and the wind is too low. I don't see a problem with it. I like to go places rather than bob around at a few knots. In the Bristol Channel the extra knot or two could make the difference between getting home early and missing a tidal gate and spending 6 hours fighting a tide