Motor Sailer Rigging - Technical Question.

[BotleyBuoy]

Firstly, apologies if this is the wrong Forum for this question as it is clearly not related to racing. It is however a technical question.

I'm planning to view a boat next week which the owner has converted to a motor sailer. Have a look at this.



Now have a look at where the shroud plates are attached.



There is a compression post under the saloon roof.

Is this acceptable? I would have thought the shroud plates should be attached to the hull which would need to be strengthened because there is no bulkhead at this point. I'm awaiting a photo of how the mast is stepped onto the saloon roof.

I have no intention of using the boat for sailing and would remove all the rigging but I'm concerned that structural damage may already have been done. I don't know at this stage whether the boat has actually been under sail with this rig.

Thanks in advance.

 

[bdh198]

You'll probably have better luck in the Practical Boat Owner forum: http://www.ybw.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?13-Practical-Boat-Owner-s-Reader-to-Reader

 

[lpdsn]

I have no intention of using the boat for sailing and would remove all the rigging but I'm concerned that structural damage may already have been done. I don't know at this stage whether the boat has actually been under sail with this rig.

Thanks in advance.

I doubt she would've sailed very well at all, and certainly not when the wind got up and put a bit of load of the chainplates and mast step, so I doubt she'll have been sailed hard.

You could always get the surveyor to check it out, or even examine it very closely yourself. That said, is she such a bargain compared to other boats on the market.

 

[BotleyBuoy]

..... That said, is she such a bargain compared to other boats on the market.

Not at the advertised price! A lot depends on how realistic the owner is willing to be. The boat has been for sale for over a year so perhaps the sailing rig has put others off as well. I'm awaiting current photos and more information before taking it further. It would be a 300+ mile round trip so I need a lot more information before committing to a viewing.

 

[Moderator]

Thread relocated from Yacht Racing, Tech and Design

 

[claymore]

I don't think its likely that permanent structural damage will have been caused. Check out the are around the 'chainplates' for cracks. Then check to see if there are backing pads on the inside which would have strengthened the coachroof a bit. It isn't going to have had massive sresses on it and if you are getting rid of the rig then that ought to mean an easier life for the structure.
Is it the boat that you find attractive - or the price?

 

[BotleyBuoy]

....Is it the boat that you find attractive - or the price?

I like the lines but not the current asking price. My understanding is that the price is negotiable, it just depends how much as there would need to be significant movement to make it a practical proposition for me.

 

[Caer Urfa]

Mounting the chain plates to the top edge sides of the very coach roof is common on many smaller Motor Sailors and yachts and unless there are some GRP starcrazing issues near
the chain plates I would not worry about it.

What you also need to check is that there is no deflection in the coach roof around the base of the mast.

 

[pvb]

Not at the advertised price! A lot depends on how realistic the owner is willing to be. The boat has been for sale for over a year so perhaps the sailing rig has put others off as well. I'm awaiting current photos and more information before taking it further. It would be a 300+ mile round trip so I need a lot more information before committing to a viewing.

The boat has been on the market for over 2 years, with an original asking price over £11K. If you do a Google Images search, you'll see that there aren't many Monark 690s with sails, and most of them seem to have the shrouds fitted to the surface of the coachroof rather than the sides. I reckon if you want to sail, you should buy a proper sailing boat; if you want to motor, buy a motor boat. This one is more a motor boat.

 

[BotleyBuoy]

............ if you want to motor, buy a motor boat. This one is more a motor boat.

Agreed. I'm looking for a motor boat.

The boat has been on the market for over 2 years, with an original asking price over £11K. ..........

Thanks for the tip. I've found adverts on a number of site going back to 2016. Well, the broker did say the photos were taken "over a year ago" and two years is over a year ago It's currently on Apolloduck & Boatshed here http://motorboats.apolloduck.com/boat.phtml?id=465160

Are you aware of any more background on this boat? Please PM me if you have any further information.

Many thanks

 

[William_H]

Perhaps I am a sailing nutter but I think that the boat would be good with a small rig to provide some steadying in rough water and an alternative propulsion method. The hull is obviously not a planing type mobo so will be limited to hull speed plus a bit. But it will have some resistance to sideways drift. (leeway)
Now regarding the chain plates location. Yes load must be transferred through to the hull and eventually the keel and the under mast support post. With a small rig the loads are not going to be huge compared to a sailing yacht where rig must be strong enough to hold the hull 90 degrees heeled so taking the weight of hull and ballast. This assuming you will not ever be in sailing conditions that will lay the boat to 90 degrees. I think it likely that the cabin top to hull joint will take this kind of chain plate load. Any damage from previous over load should be obvious. If you have concerns then you could easily transmit loads via internal support stays down to the hull.
But if as you say you do not wish to sail it then no don't worry if no obvious signs of distress. Indeed you could remove the mast support post to clear up inside access.
A friend has bought just few years back a new Beneteau mobo which comes with a mast and sail for steadying in rough water. So some people think a sail is useful on a mobo. olewill

 

[Stemar]

It may not be a fair comparison, but the lower shroud chainplates remind me of the ones on early Centaurs, which are notorious for working in use and causing the windows below to leak.

The other thing is that a couple of years of neglect is plenty to turn a trim little boat, as she appears in the photos, into a horror with peeling varnish and mildew everywhere that will require a LOT of work and money to put right. Should that be the case, don't be tempted to think a quick clean will get thinks back up to scratch.

 

[BotleyBuoy]

Many thanks you for all the replies; very helpful.

 

[lpdsn]

The other thing is that a couple of years of neglect is plenty to turn a trim little boat, as she appears in the photos, into a horror with peeling varnish and mildew everywhere that will require a LOT of work and money to put right. Should that be the case, don't be tempted to think a quick clean will get thinks back up to scratch.

Very true. Something for the OP to be beware of.

 

[BotleyBuoy]

..... Something for the OP to be beware of.

Thank you. However it appears the seller is not aware of this so I won't be trekking all the way to north Norfolk to have a look at what is on the slippery slope to being a "project".

Thanks again to all contributors lots of useful information which will help me when I look at the next one.

 

[alant]

Firstly, apologies if this is the wrong Forum for this question as it is clearly not related to racing. It is however a technical question.

I'm planning to view a boat next week which the owner has converted to a motor sailer. Have a look at this.

View attachment 70172

Now have a look at where the shroud plates are attached.

View attachment 70173

There is a compression post under the saloon roof.

Is this acceptable? I would have thought the shroud plates should be attached to the hull which would need to be strengthened because there is no bulkhead at this point. I'm awaiting a photo of how the mast is stepped onto the saloon roof.

I have no intention of using the boat for sailing and would remove all the rigging but I'm concerned that structural damage may already have been done. I don't know at this stage whether the boat has actually been under sail with this rig.

Thanks in advance.

Probably rolls like a pig, particularly when anchored, so mast probably only carries a sail to dampen the roll.

 

[DownWest]

Engine a bit ancient....

 

[BotleyBuoy]

Engine a bit ancient....

And, so I was told, doesn't start. Well it has been standing idle for at least two years so no surprises there.

.....The other thing is that a couple of years of neglect is plenty to turn a trim little boat, as she appears in the photos, into a horror with peeling varnish and mildew everywhere that will require a LOT of work and money to put right. Should that be the case, don't be tempted to think a quick clean will get thinks back up to scratch.

Words of wisdom.

I was told the seller's "bottom line" is £4,500. So if anyone thinks that's good value you know where to go.