Motor Boat "Charlie" off Cowes at 1200 Yesterday (sunday)

[Major Catastrophe]

Re: Motor Boat \"Charlie\" off Cowes at 1200 Yesterday (sunday)

[ QUOTE ]

"Cars go on roads, and some of them are badly driven, so if I cross a pedestrian crossing with my child it will be my fault if we're hit by a car."

[/ QUOTE ] You would be culpable if you were flying a spinnaker at the time.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Re: Motor Boat \"Charlie\" off Cowes at 1200 Yesterday (sunday)

No, I'm not missing the point. At first you inferred it was dangerous and now you're saying it's not, following criticism of your seamanship in having put your boat in an apparently risky situation. Then you make the quite ludicrous comment to the effect that somehow it is your right to hoist a spinnaker as you waft past Cowes irrespective of whether it might get you into trouble. Now you're arguing that the wash of a 40ft mobo is somehow worse than the other much larger traffic in the area and it seems that the fact that the wash was 'breaking' makes it even worse. I should stop digging if I was you
The one thing you haven't mentioned at all is the collision danger. I'm very surprised you haven't commented on the fact that a mobo passing very close at speed presents a collision danger especially if your boat has to be steered 'lock to lock' to prevent a gybe but, then, maybe it wasn't so close after all?

 

[benjenbav]

Re: Motor Boat \"Charlie\" off Cowes at 1200 Yesterday (sunday)

Gales HSB is within spitting distance of the Royal Yacht Squadron. (OK, you'd have to be quite a good spitter).

Even I have raced round the cans off Cowes with a spinnaker up (well, this year the spinnaker was mostly dragging in the briny, to tell the truth - it being 25 years since I last raced properly).

It would be very difficult to countenance the curtailing of yacht racing in the UK's yacht racing capital.

 

[Argonautical]

Re: Motor Boat \"Charlie\" off Cowes at 1200 Yesterday (sunday)

As they say in Liverpool.............


'AARIIGHT' AARIIGHT! CAAAAAM DOWN /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

This is of no relevance to this particular incident and I do not seek to pass judgement on any parties involved. BUT. Not everyone here is familiar with the area of said incident, and as a relative newcomer to boats, I would like to add a little bit of spin to the mobo argument.

Myself and Mr RAT, a well known and experienced moboer and SAILOR, were cruising through Cowes water a couple of weekends ago, on our way to some bay or other by the Needles, ....................................................... It was flippin MAYHEM!!!!

Wafi's everywhere, nearly colliding with each other trying to get in a good spot from which to start the '400 M sprint for people with no sense of direction'............It was dangerous as hell for us to get through it all, at a vastly reduced speed, and as someone has correctly pointed out there isnt that much water to play in there at the wrong tidal time of the day.

I recon watching out for an innapropriately prodded spinnaker mast thingy is equally has nasty as a bit of wake.

There you go, the thoughts of 'Chairman Argonautical'! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

www.anglia-interiors.co.uk

 

[benjenbav]

Re: Motor Boat \"Charlie\" off Cowes at 1200 Yesterday (sunday)

I know what you mean! In the middle of Cowes week, the benjenbav family had to make its way back to Chichester from Newtown. With the aid of some excellent planning, I managed to hit Cowes with a four knot west-going tide against me, a bit of breeze up the chuff and yots flying hither and yon.

Afterwards, Mrs benjenbav said: "I don't know how you picked your way through that lot."

Little did she know that I used the same technique as for the "magic roundabout" in Swindon:

Close eyes and hope for the best. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Re: Motor Boat \"Charlie\" off Cowes at 1200 Yesterday (sunday)

I'm a little bit gobsmacked by this thread.

A perfectly sensible point was raised, with pretty much unanimous agreement that the skipper of 'Charlie' was nob.

And actually, nicely presented as very definitely not being a Raggie Vs Mobo dig. (which for the record, I wholeheartedly support)

And its been turned into a slanging match.

Amazing.

[sarcasm mode]Thanks to the folks that agreed, and to those that criticised Flaming for being ignorant enough to not consider the danger of being passed at 20' range by a large motor boat at speed...... amazing[/sarcasm mode]

So once again.... trolling on this thread has yet further damaged the relationship between our two communities.... don't know why you guys let certain people get away with it.

 

[Sundays_Child]

Re: Motor Boat \"Charlie\" off Cowes at 1200 Yesterday (sunday)

"Life is a state of mind..."

 

[whisper]

Re: Motor Boat \"Charlie\" off Cowes at 1200 Yesterday (sunday)

I quite agree.
If the situation occurred, as described, then Helmsman and others on "Charlie", or whatever, were a bunch of prats.
I see no problem with 2 yachts racing close to each other as that's what racing is all about. However, they should both be watching out for other boats in their vicinity as per colregs.
The way this thread progressed was pathetic, not to mention, childish.

 

[heyjoe]

Re: Motor Boat \"Charlie\" off Cowes at 1200 Yesterday (sunday)

Hi. I'm new here.

Ermmm..., is this thread for real ? Am I missing something here ?

Is this a description of an actual (certainly inconsiderate and possibly dangerous) event, or is it a hypothetical event to start a debate ?
Is it a normal knockabout occasionally injected on this forum, as a light relief from all the helpful and informative posts ?
Or, perhaps, is it just a thinly disguised attack on someone who happens to own a boat called "Charlie", against whom the originator of the thread has some real or imagined grudge ?

Let me say right off that **shock, horror** I DO NOT OWN A BOAT.
My growing interest in boating, and this forum, comes from many happy times as a guest on boats in the Med.
Sitting in the cockpit, knocking back the proverbial Gordons, on a couple of those universally despised (by raggies) floating gin palaces.
Oh, and some time doing the same thing on sailing boats. Enjoyed those too.
And I find myself thinking, more and more, maybe I should get my own boat.

I guess that makes me a "tyre-kicker" as it has been referred to in another thread on here.
Perhaps "hull-slapper" would be a more apt term for boating (or maybe not - open to some misinterpretation after a couple of Gordons).

We haven't heard the other side of this story from Charlie.

It seems to me that Flaming's vessel turned into the path of this mobo ?

I am assuming that Charlie was travelling more or less in a straight line, that's what mobo's tend to do ?
Did Charlie have enough distance or time to take any avoiding action ? Or to slow down sufficiently to reduce his wake ? Flaming tells us that the wake was still breaking, so either the mobo held his speed from way back, or he was pretty close when he throttled down.

I don't know the waters around Cowes at all, so I haven't any idea whether there would be sufficient room for Charlie to veer off and go around at a distance.
I can't think that any mobo skipper would deliberately steer his 10 or 15ft beam boat, at speed, through a 50ft gap between two sailing boats which might close unexpectedly.
Even if he had some pathological hatred of all raggies, he would have some concern for the safety of his own boat surely ?

So, maybe Charlie found himself in an impossible situation.
Having expected Flaming to safely pass by or cross ahead, he could have found two sailing yachts bang ahead of him and simply had nowhere to go.

Several posters in this thread have pointed out that these are busy waters and perhaps not the most appropriate for racing or making unpredictable (to others) course changes.


Now I know that sail should have right of way over mobo's, and that mobo's should always watch their speed, and the effect of their wake, blah, blah.
But "It Was All The Other Fella's Fault" has always seemed like a pretty pointless epitaph to me.

My simple tyre-kickers analogy might be pedestrian crossings on our busy roads. Sure, the pedestrian has a right of way - but if you insist on walking straight out, eyes fixed firmly front, and oblivious to and uncaring of the oncoming traffic, then sooner or later you will meet a car who : a. isn't paying attention and/or didn't see you in time; or b. couldn't stop in time if he wanted to; or c. never stops for pedestrians anyway.
Surely common sense and consideration is required from both parties ?

Now we come to the hurling of abuse. Certainly unpleasant and guaranteed to spoil a nice day out on the water.
But why should Charlie the mobo hurl abuse at our upright forumite Flaming ?
Was Charlie upset at the actions of Flaming turning into his path, if that is what happened ?

Or perhaps Flaming has, in deference to the more delicate souls on this forum, sanitised his version of telling Charlie that he should slow down or find somewhere else to go sailing.

And, of course, after a near miss Charlie might have been a little het-up and thinking to himself that people who want to sail an unpredictable course might want to find some less busy waters to do it in.

So I find myself wondering if the reported abuse was tit-for-tat, in language or in sentiment. Many of us have been there, haven't we ? A near miss, adrenalin pumping, things said which didn't sound like us the next day ?

But in all of this, to me, the most curious thing of all is Flaming's reluctance to report the whole thing. The incident was at least inconsiderate, and with a less experienced sailing crew, possibly dangerous. And Flaming, to take his own account at face value, was quite right to be upset by the whole thing. So why not report it ?

If Flaming isn't sufficiently sure of the mobo's name to report the matter properly, then why name and shame on this forum ? Certainly the culprit deserves some reprimand or at least some words of advice, but how many other boats might be called Charlie something or other, or some name that could be mistaken for Charlie at a snatched glance ?

If I were an entirely innocent skipper of some other local boat with a similar name, then I would be pretty miffed if some of this slagging off came my way.

Perhaps, the thread of the incident could have, and should have, remained nameless. If the mobo guy reads this forum, then he would still have recognised himself and perhaps reflected on the whole thing. And maybe put his side of the story.
Or maybe he doesn't care, so the whole thread is pointless anyway.

But if he doesn't read the forum, he has no means of reply, so in my book it is out of order to name the guy. Even if you later say, "Well, it was something like that name anyway".

And throwing these accusations about, naming people, could leave the forum publishers in a dodgy position. I admit I don't know what the rules are on libel and slander, but I do know that people have taken action against boards before.


I end up asking myself again, "Ermmm..., is this thread for real ? Am I missing something here ? "

Perhaps I AM being completely thick, maybe there is a clue in the name of the thread starter ? Flaming ??? And the tone of some of the posts ???

 

[poltergeist]

Re: Motor Boat \"Charlie\" off Cowes at 1200 Yesterday (sunday)

I have only just recently got back into motorboating, and in June, bough a 20ft diesel Fletcher. During the Red Arrows display in the early evening, at the end of Cowes week, we came out of the Hamble, heading towards the Island. I was amazed at the poor manners as some of the bigger boats came within spitting distance of us, nearly swamping us in the chop. They had plenty of opportunity to give a wider berth to a smaller boat, but thought it clever to pass as close as to make it dangerous for us to proceed. I turned the boat around, and came back in. There is no doubt there are a few inconsiderate prats out there that have scant disregard for anything else that floats. I still have the burning vision of the twat that was laughing as he witnessed us getting into difficulty, due to the actions of him passing to closely.

Lets not kid each other here - there are boatowners that exist, that are plain selfish & irresponsible. But the same could be said for carowners, or just about any other kind of owner.

To say thats life doesn't make it anymore palatable - it took me a while to calm down from that particular incident.

 

[motayotty]

Re: Motor Boat \"Charlie\" off Cowes at 1200 Yesterday (sunday)

Have to agree with you. I am a rag racer as well as moboer and cant believe the ignorant stance from motor boaters on this one. Who even brought into question whether the incident happened as described.
How rude do you need to be to question someones integrity over such an issue.
Then to continue baiting in the ignorance of the purpose of racing and how it is carried out is mind numbingly arrogant.
Dont label me as a moboer if this is the level of arrogance some on this thread continue to display. Simon.

 

[poltergeist]

Re: Motor Boat \"Charlie\" off Cowes at 1200 Yesterday (sunday)

[ QUOTE ]
Have to agree with you. I am a rag racer as well as moboer and cant believe the ignorant stance from motor boaters on this one. Who even brought into question whether the incident happened as described.
How rude do you need to be to question someones integrity over such an issue.
Then to continue baiting in the ignorance of the purpose of racing and how it is carried out is mind numbingly arrogant.
Dont label me as a moboer if this is the level of arrogance some on this thread continue to display. Simon.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well said.

 

[heyjoe]

Re: Motor Boat \"Charlie\" off Cowes at 1200 Yesterday (sunday)

[ QUOTE ]
Have to agree with you. I am a rag racer as well as moboer and cant believe the ignorant stance from motor boaters on this one. Who even brought into question whether the incident happened as described.
How rude do you need to be to question someones integrity over such an issue.
Then to continue baiting in the ignorance of the purpose of racing and how it is carried out is mind numbingly arrogant.
Dont label me as a moboer if this is the level of arrogance some on this thread continue to display. Simon.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I guess you mean me.

Yes, you could say I wasn't sure we had the whole story.

And I'm still not sure. I would love to hear the mobo skippers side of it - after all, as I read later the later posts, the sailboat turned right into the path of the mobo. Maybe all in a days racing to you, but sounds a daft thing to do to me.

And what's all this about naming names, and then later saying I won't report a potentially dangerous incident because I'm not sure if that was the name after all ? Sounds dodgy to me. Put up or shut up is my motto.

As for ignorance of racing - certainly, guilty as charged.
As for arrogance, well for example of arrogance I suggest you re-read all of Flamings posts, followed by your own.

By the way, I think I made it clear I am not a moboer. At the moment. I enjoy both mobo and sail -- but I certainly wouldn't travel with Flaming if it is his habit to play chicken with other boats.

 

[flaming]

Re: Motor Boat \"Charlie\" off Cowes at 1200 Yesterday (sunday)

I know, I know, don't feed the troll... but

[ QUOTE ]
as I read later the later posts, the sailboat turned right into the path of the mobo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where did you get that idea from?

We had the kite up - pretty much by definition then we're sailing as straight a course as we can, certianly din't turn into the MOBO, actually turned away a bit when it was clear he actually was going through that gap.

And as to the other issue, as I have said repeatedly, I WAS NOT THE SKIPPER, so reporting it is not my decision.

 

[l'escargot]

Re: Motor Boat \"Charlie\" off Cowes at 1200 Yesterday (sunday)

[ QUOTE ]
...As for ignorance of racing - certainly, guilty as charged...

[/ QUOTE ]
... and ignorant of the area.

There are many small boats in this area - sail and motor - passing through close to any of these boats at speed is unacceptable and unecessary. If you approve of it, probably best you stay on other peoples boats and not get one of your own.

You certainly come in with a very long, confident and baiting thread for someone who only joined the forum today - are you sure you aren't someone else?

 

[heyjoe]

Re: Motor Boat \"Charlie\" off Cowes at 1200 Yesterday (sunday)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...As for ignorance of racing - certainly, guilty as charged...

[/ QUOTE ]
... and ignorant of the area.

There are many small boats in this area - sail and motor - passing through close to any of these boats at speed is unacceptable and unecessary. If you approve of it, probably best you stay on other peoples boats and not get one of your own.

You certainly come in with a very long, confident and baiting thread for someone who only joined the forum today - are you sure you aren't someone else?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. I am ignorant of the area. If you read my post carefully I think you will find that I did say that.

Yes, I agree that passing through crowded waters at speed is unacceptable.

Nowhere did I say that I approved of such irresponsible behaviour. If you read my post carefully I think you will see that, if the incident happened as described, then I am all for reporting the mobo skipper - I think I used the words inconsiderate and potentially dangerous.

But in case you can't be bothered to read it properly, I'll put it simply for you - I do not think this is acceptable or approve of it . OK ?

But I would still like to hear both sides. Perhaps that isn't your style.

As to your advice on whether I should get a boat of my own - well, I think I'll take advice from others who can be bothered to read the post.

Yes I did join today to write that post. And yes the post was quite long, because I thought it was odd to start throwing names of boats around, accusing them of poor behaviour, without any way of a comeback from the mobo skipper unless he read the forum too. And then backtracking and saying not sure about the name of the boat. That alone made me wonder and want to know the other guys side of the story.

Maybe you would see that as baiting - but then again I would regard slagging someone off behind their back as baiting.
And your remark about my getting a boat of my own - that wouldn't be a bit of baiting by you now would it ?

So, I guess we'll just have to see these things differently. It takes all sorts, as they say.

No I'm not someone else. I have never posted before on this forum under this name or any other.

 

[DAKA]

Re: Motor Boat \"Charlie\" off Cowes at 1200 Yesterday (sunday)

Hi Joe and welcome.

This is a really nasty post to start on, most sensible regulars will watch from a distance.

this is normally a very friendly place and a great place to learn about boats.

Please don't be put off by this thread.

there is history here of falling out going back years, lescargot is well meaning and fun /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

as to some of the others crossing over from the scuttleburks they are here to stir up trouble.

this thread is full of trolls and any useful information will never be digested.

kind regards

Pete

I am pleased I am not the only one that smells a rat , there is only one way to find out what others think /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
A poll

 

[l'escargot]

Re: Motor Boat \"Charlie\" off Cowes at 1200 Yesterday (sunday)

[ QUOTE ]
... I'll put it simply for you - I do not think this is acceptable or approve of it . OK ?...

[/ QUOTE ]
Good, perhaps there is some hope for you.

I think your advice to read posts is helpful too, you may wish to apply it yourself - if you read back over all of the thread you will see that some of the suggestions in your your posts are clearly inaccurate based on information given.

Seems like much speculation on your part purely to create contradictions - watch the master, DAKA is far better at it than you.

I shall watch your future contibutions with interest. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[l'escargot]

Re: Motor Boat \"Charlie\" off Cowes at 1200 Yesterday (sunday)

[ QUOTE ]
... lescargot is well meaning and fun /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif ...

[/ QUOTE ]

 

[DAKA]

Re: Motor Boat \"Charlie\" off Cowes at 1200 Yesterday (sunday)

[quote
Seems like much speculation on your part purely to create contradictions - watch the master, DAKA is far better at it than you.



[/ QUOTE ]

Well in all honesty here is the odd thing

I just post as I see it, perhaps I dont manage to put across my thoughts in a clear and eloquent manner but I try.
I am totally perplexed by the apparent lack of understanding of simple col regs principles.

If the forum interpretation is really used out on the water than I am amazed there are not more casualties or MIAs.

Anyway, if I did misinterpret Flamings intentions (as did the 40ft stinker, who saw flamings boat helm steering from full lock side to side into him and closing the 10 ft gap) /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif I would like to apologise to him, sincerely /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Having said that you will note only 3 out of 19 votes thought your post was well placed, I guess one was yours, and the other two were from scuttleburks who only came over to stir trouble.

Now you should be asking yourself if you have encouraged 40ft stinkers to give you a wider berth or if you have damaged the relationship between the two sports.

If it costs a 50Ft stinker £20 in fuel to get back on the plane after he slows down for you, you need to ask yourself why he should waste it being polite to a complete stranger who comes on an open forum to call the @@@@ out of him.