Piers
Well-Known Member
I agree about Wessex. It keeps the teak natural with no dyes. I use Wessex once every two years, and then I use Borocol twice a year. keeps the teak absolutely perfect with no horrid oils or dyes.
More teak advice please!
- Thread starter petem
- Start date
I agree about Wessex. It keeps the teak natural with no dyes. I use Wessex once every two years, and then I use Borocol twice a year. keeps the teak absolutely perfect with no horrid oils or dyes.
benjenbav
Well-Known Member
I think Pete just wants an excuse to go ‘au (or even eau) naturel’ ?
Piers
Well-Known Member
Eau no!
MapisM
Well-Known Member
M, I don't think it's just a matter of hard work, because I disagree that the grey look is due to dirt alone.
In fact, over time, oxidation does turn into grey the surface fibers of teak - as well as of any other wood, for that matter.
This is a well known fact, and is the reason why on some boats where form is way more relevant than function, teak decks are varnished (clue Aquarama).
This way, the wood surface is isolated from the contact with air, in turn eliminating (or reducing immensely, anyway) its degradation.
With the typical non-varnished decks, as you have in JW, and as I had in my old lady, there's no chemical product on earth that can keep it from turning grey over time, regardless of how clean it is.
The only way to keep natural teak beige is by constantly removing the fibers on its surface which turned grey.
And by doing that, you arguably keep your deck cleaner, because even assuming to have zero dirt of any other sort, those grey fibers alone can indeed result in dark footprints, whenever moving from wet teak to any other surface like bare grp or painted wood.
Otoh, by removing the superficial oxidized layer, you automatically bring to the surface other wood fibers which immediately start oxidizing, and so on.
Bottom line, the dilemma isn't simply between clean and good looking teak through hard work on one hand, and greyish teak just rinsed with sea water on the other.
What must be considered is that by going for the first you also reduce considerably the lifespan of any teak deck (possibly halving it, or even worse, depending on how frequently you "clean" the upper grey layer) compared to the latter.
I think this is the main reason why most yachties suggest to just rinse the deck with sea water - and it's surely also the reason why (on top of myself being a lazy git!
) the 20yo deck on my old lady will probably last for another 10, if not more.You pays your money...
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Momac
Well-Known Member
I have a small amount if teak on a very modest bathing platform that is exposed to the elements. This was well weathered when I bought the boat
A much larger area is the cockpit floor and the flybridge floor which are under canvas when the boat is not in use and show no significant weathering. With very modest cleaning and treatment the teak retains a reasonable colour .
The problem area is the exterior teak which constantly exposed to the weather. I do not like the grey look.
I have resisted cleaning the teak too often. Once a year in the past two years although I have done it twice this year - using the Wessex two part cleaner.
I have in previous years applied no treatment but the teak has become grey in a few weeks .
This year I applied some products - the first earlier in the year was an oil based product but it was not durable on my weathered teak. The second treatment is Semco which has only been on a month so early days. I am not over enthusiastic about the look of the semco but it does look like it is protecting the teak, and its better than nothing. On another boat nearby Semco has been on since March and is just now starting to look like it needs attention .
A much larger area is the cockpit floor and the flybridge floor which are under canvas when the boat is not in use and show no significant weathering. With very modest cleaning and treatment the teak retains a reasonable colour .
The problem area is the exterior teak which constantly exposed to the weather. I do not like the grey look.
I have resisted cleaning the teak too often. Once a year in the past two years although I have done it twice this year - using the Wessex two part cleaner.
I have in previous years applied no treatment but the teak has become grey in a few weeks .
This year I applied some products - the first earlier in the year was an oil based product but it was not durable on my weathered teak. The second treatment is Semco which has only been on a month so early days. I am not over enthusiastic about the look of the semco but it does look like it is protecting the teak, and its better than nothing. On another boat nearby Semco has been on since March and is just now starting to look like it needs attention .
Piers
Well-Known Member
Looking after teak should not be hard work, if, indeed, the definition of hard work means elbow grease, scrubbing and sweat.
Teak needs regular washing, best with salt water, but never with a pressure washer or brushing with the grain. Both these remove the softer wood between the grain. Instead, use a hose with a gentle spray, and if anything, a soft brush or sponge across the grain.
The Wessex treatment will lift and remove the dirt and leave the teak almost as original. Borocol will kill mould and lichen, both of which can bury their roots into the teak.
Keeping teak at its original colour isn't natural, but can be achieved with constant treatments. Teak will naturally becomes grey with age (like me). Oiling shouldn't be necessary since teak is a very oily wood.
Teak needs regular washing, best with salt water, but never with a pressure washer or brushing with the grain. Both these remove the softer wood between the grain. Instead, use a hose with a gentle spray, and if anything, a soft brush or sponge across the grain.
The Wessex treatment will lift and remove the dirt and leave the teak almost as original. Borocol will kill mould and lichen, both of which can bury their roots into the teak.
Keeping teak at its original colour isn't natural, but can be achieved with constant treatments. Teak will naturally becomes grey with age (like me). Oiling shouldn't be necessary since teak is a very oily wood.
benjenbav
Well-Known Member
I always found that looking after the teak was a relatively ok chore - admittedly on a 10m and not a 20m vessel. I used to do it Spring and Autumn (UK) with two-part cleaner and an hour or so of swooshing and rinsing always produced an excellent 'after vs before' feeling of satisfaction.
I have occasionally wondered about the relative environmental detriments of producing teak from trees that can be replanted as against production of the plastics in teak substitute.
I have occasionally wondered about the relative environmental detriments of producing teak from trees that can be replanted as against production of the plastics in teak substitute.
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Actually, in most boats - namely, all of them, aside from those timber built - teak is just added on top of a plastic deck which is already fine without it.
Which btw means a bit of additional weight, i.e. ultimately fuel burn, though admittedly this side effect is bound to be tiny...
Hurricane
Well-Known Member
M, I don't think it's just a matter of hard work, because I disagree that the grey look is due to dirt alone.
In fact, over time, oxidation does turn into grey the surface fibers of teak - as well as of any other wood, for that matter.
This is a well known fact, and is the reason why on some boats where form is way more relevant than function, teak decks are varnished (clue Aquarama).
This way, the wood surface is isolated from the contact with air, in turn eliminating (or reducing immensely, anyway) its degradation.
With the typical non-varnished decks, as you have in JW, and as I had in my old lady, there's no chemical product on earth that can keep it from turning grey over time, regardless of how clean it is.
The only way to keep natural teak beige is by constantly removing the fibers on its surface which turned grey.
And by doing that, you arguably keep your deck cleaner, because even assuming to have zero dirt of any other sort, those grey fibers alone can indeed result in dark footprints, whenever moving from wet teak to any other surface like bare grp or painted wood.
Otoh, by removing the superficial oxidized layer, you automatically bring to the surface other wood fibers which immediately start oxidizing, and so on.
Bottom line, the dilemma isn't simply between clean and good looking teak through hard work on one hand, and greyish teak just rinsed with sea water on the other.
What must be considered is that by going for the first you also reduce considerably the lifespan of any teak deck (possibly halving it, or even worse, depending on how frequently you "clean" the upper grey layer) compared to the latter.
I think this is the main reason why most yachties suggest to just rinse the deck with sea water - and it's surely also the reason why (on top of myself being a lazy git!
You pays your money...
Yep agree with most but I don't agree that simply washing with sea water is enough to keep it actually clean.
Those that use Wessex will know (like me) that the first part removes much much more dirt than you could using plain sea water.
OK, the Wessex Part 2 is designed to un-oxidise the wood and does make it look good.
I like my teak to look as good as the day it was delivered.
I can achieve this look using Wessex but it is hard work.
Also after time, the teak stains - stains which you don't see if it isn't cleaned with Wessex - you only see these stains when the teak is wet - fully dry after Wessex and it all looks good.
rlw
Well-Known Member
I agree with Marine Reflections. I had the teak on my bathing platform redone. During the second season it had lost enough of the new look to match with the existing.
I just clean with the wessex cleaner but both before and after cleaning the old an new teak looks the same. Treating it now would worry me that it would accentuate the newness on the bathing platform.
Rob
I just clean with the wessex cleaner but both before and after cleaning the old an new teak looks the same. Treating it now would worry me that it would accentuate the newness on the bathing platform.
Rob
jrudge
Well-Known Member
I had teak repairs done at the beginning of the season. Stood out a mile.
3-4 weeks later in the med sun you could not tell the difference.
Sadly it does not take long!
3-4 weeks later in the med sun you could not tell the difference.
Sadly it does not take long!
Nick_H
Well-Known Member
When I had my bathing platform re-teaked, they advised not to 2-part it for a minimum of 3 months, and preferably leave it until the start of the next season.
I've always worked on the basis that when you thoroughly clean teak you expose fresh new wood to the elements thereby reducing its life, so I only 2-part it once at the start of the season.
It would be interesting to know what the part 1 removes. I don't think it's all dirt, I think a lot of it is the residue of the natural oil that has dried out in the grey wood, plus the grey wood itself.
I've always worked on the basis that when you thoroughly clean teak you expose fresh new wood to the elements thereby reducing its life, so I only 2-part it once at the start of the season.
It would be interesting to know what the part 1 removes. I don't think it's all dirt, I think a lot of it is the residue of the natural oil that has dried out in the grey wood, plus the grey wood itself.
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Yup, seconded 100%.
Actually, I don't disagree with hurric when he says that a bucket of sea water alone is not enough to remove dirt.
Sometimes, for instance after some sandy rain, I do use also a (very soft) brush on the deck, together with a bit of neutral soap.
But even that is already enough to remove a bit of greyed wood fibers, so it's better not to exaggerate (and brush rigorously across teak plank, not longitudinally - which along the walkarounds is a proper PITA, btw).
In fact, a proof of the pudding ref being the "dirt" not only, but mostly made of teak fibers can be done as follows:
Firstly, you wash the deck with soap or anything else, till you think it's properly clean.
Then you let it dry out, and start again.
Maybe the washing water will not be as dark as the first time, but it will still look "dirty" for good.
And the same goes after repeating the experiment a third or fourth time...
...that's fighting a losing battle imho, the true loser being the teak lifespan.
petem
Well-Known Member
Thanks all. I think my plan of actions will be to let the new teak weather a bit without Semco. I'll keep it clean with some fresh water.
For the cockpit, I might try a dishwasher tablet followed by Natural (clear) Semco. If the dishwasher tablet doesn't do the job then I'll 2-part it.
For the cockpit, I might try a dishwasher tablet followed by Natural (clear) Semco. If the dishwasher tablet doesn't do the job then I'll 2-part it.
Marine Reflections
Well-Known Member
Natural is natural.
Cleartone is clear.
Both are sealers.
Clear coat... is a different animal in that it is designed for more of a protection coat for food spills etc, the coulr will be similar to number3.
Going by the picture of the cockpit, a dishwasher tablet won't be enough, 2 part it, even if you only do it the once, a dishwasher tablet might work once its sealed as an ongoing cleaner, but not as a prep for Semco. There would be a significant difference in performance.
The grey is indeed natural oils from within the teak purging to the surface and oxidising grey under the elements, it is also a certain amount of fallout and dirt, normal cleaning might help with the dirt, but not with the oxidised teak.
Most of the purging is done in the first year or so of exposure, so any coatings will get pushed out of the way quicker than they would do next year, hence the reason to leave it to purge year 1.
The reasons why I use a Semco system more than any other, is that it fills the grain making it far more resistant to water ingress, has a UV inhibitor, is hydrophobic so sheds surface water easily and acts as a pawn to be replaced instead of the oxidised teak.
The idea is that the teak never gets a chance to purge any oil due to being locked in by the Semco, therefore no oxidation occurs, thus making the annual process one that doesn't affect the height of the teak as it would do with a oxidise and replace system.
That's the theory, in practice different elements steer things away, the teak will continue to purge oil despite there being a coating on it. The coating will fail and you'll either top it up or start again.
In the UK, moisture is the achillies heel of a Semco sysytem, as is green growth / algae. An addition of 10-15% of Patio Magic is a good idea that seems to be working out very well perfromance wise so far.
The easy system is by far to spray over with some Patio Magic or similar and keep grey / silver, but that's a different system with different results.
[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 20%"]#1
Cleartone
Contains no pigment, looks like oil; not as weather resistant.[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"]#2
Natural
Our best seller for boats; gives wood the golden-tan glow of slightly weathered teak.[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"]#3
Honeytone
Our most popular among teak furniture clients, it is a rich honey color that looks like new teak.[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"]#4
Goldtone
Original shade gives wood the reddish-brown luster of freshly sanded teak.[/TD]
[TD="width: 20%"]#5
Classic Brown
Darker brown similar to the color when wet.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 20%, align: center"]
[TD="width: 20%, align: center"]
[TD="width: 20%, align: center"]
[TD="width: 20%, align: center"]
[TD="width: 20%, align: center"]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
petem
Well-Known Member
Thankfully, with Christmas Day now out of the way, thoughts can again return to important matters such as TEAK! Anyhow, soon after posting this thread (Oct 17) I cleaned the cockpit with the Wessex 2 part kit. I was quite pleased with the result that you can see from the photo below...
I then protected it with Semco natural but wasn't overly impressed with the colour, which was rather darker than I liked. So I am wondering if Gtechniq D3 Deck UV Protect might be more to my liking (
https://gtechniq.com/products/marine/perfect/exterior/paint/d3-deck-uv-protect). Marine Reflections, what has your experience been of this?
Also, I think someone posted a link top Jared Watney's Youtube channel / teak Cleaning video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYIj5S5UY9c. Whilst I might use the washing powder / vinegar technique for a mid season clean I do think think that the Doodlebug pads look good for teak cleaning as does K2R (can you get this in Spain?) to I will invest in these before the season.
I then protected it with Semco natural but wasn't overly impressed with the colour, which was rather darker than I liked. So I am wondering if Gtechniq D3 Deck UV Protect might be more to my liking (
https://gtechniq.com/products/marine/perfect/exterior/paint/d3-deck-uv-protect). Marine Reflections, what has your experience been of this?
Also, I think someone posted a link top Jared Watney's Youtube channel / teak Cleaning video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYIj5S5UY9c. Whilst I might use the washing powder / vinegar technique for a mid season clean I do think think that the Doodlebug pads look good for teak cleaning as does K2R (can you get this in Spain?) to I will invest in these before the season.
Portofino
Well-Known Member
Looks a bit silver grey and patchy tbo Pete.
I found a bottle of Starbrite teak oil at the back of a locker about August time .
If you recall I have pretty good results with “teak wonder “ it’s a two part and works to clean and get the honey glow .
Yours doesn’t look very honey .Then a sealer .
This was done at the start of the season in May and held up pretty well .
Anyway I thought I would try the Starbrite stuff , bit sceptical tbo I was a wrong purchase by the wife and never taken back so left in the locker .
Point is this as a mid / end season refresh it worked .Remember no clean stage it’s not a two part .
You just rub it on dry teak with a cloth .Smells like linseed oil ,like the stuff you rubbed on a cricket bat - but it stains and brings up the colour back to a rich warn honey glow which I guess is the main thing .
For a week or so the bathing platform smells like a cricket bat and you get globulation of water on the oil surface .
It’s not oily to the touch so you can sit on it and does not get on your swimwear.
Woukd I use it again ? Yes as mid season top up colourwise it seens to last .Iam thinking sun tan oil .A thin layer on your skin protects from UV .So a layer , very thicker on the teak and soaked in I guess protects from UV .
Assuming the greying and lightening back to silver has a UV component as well as oxidised ? - dunno really but it worked and held its colour up the end of the season.It a dye as well .
Looked still honey gold last week too compared to neighbours teak which had already gone back to sq 1 silver .
At the start of next season I will two pack it assume the 1st cleanse stage will remove any Starbrite left ?
Images to follow as pic upload not working - sorry guys
I found a bottle of Starbrite teak oil at the back of a locker about August time .
If you recall I have pretty good results with “teak wonder “ it’s a two part and works to clean and get the honey glow .
Yours doesn’t look very honey .Then a sealer .
This was done at the start of the season in May and held up pretty well .
Anyway I thought I would try the Starbrite stuff , bit sceptical tbo I was a wrong purchase by the wife and never taken back so left in the locker .
Point is this as a mid / end season refresh it worked .Remember no clean stage it’s not a two part .
You just rub it on dry teak with a cloth .Smells like linseed oil ,like the stuff you rubbed on a cricket bat - but it stains and brings up the colour back to a rich warn honey glow which I guess is the main thing .
For a week or so the bathing platform smells like a cricket bat and you get globulation of water on the oil surface .
It’s not oily to the touch so you can sit on it and does not get on your swimwear.
Woukd I use it again ? Yes as mid season top up colourwise it seens to last .Iam thinking sun tan oil .A thin layer on your skin protects from UV .So a layer , very thicker on the teak and soaked in I guess protects from UV .
Assuming the greying and lightening back to silver has a UV component as well as oxidised ? - dunno really but it worked and held its colour up the end of the season.It a dye as well .
Looked still honey gold last week too compared to neighbours teak which had already gone back to sq 1 silver .
At the start of next season I will two pack it assume the 1st cleanse stage will remove any Starbrite left ?
Images to follow as pic upload not working - sorry guys
Portofino
Well-Known Member
Pics for above , sorry guys had to use Imgur .
https://imgur.com/a/NSUlryK
https://imgur.com/a/NSUlryK
petem
Well-Known Member
@Porto, the patchiness was poor application of the 2 part on my part. I think I will try the Gtechniq this year.
Marine Reflections
Well-Known Member
Thankfully, with Christmas Day now out of the way, thoughts can again return to important matters such as TEAK! Anyhow, soon after posting this thread (Oct 17) I cleaned the cockpit with the Wessex 2 part kit. I was quite pleased with the result that you can see from the photo below...
I then protected it with Semco natural but wasn't overly impressed with the colour, which was rather darker than I liked. So I am wondering if Gtechniq D3 Deck UV Protect might be more to my liking (
https://gtechniq.com/products/marine/perfect/exterior/paint/d3-deck-uv-protect). Marine Reflections, what has your experience been of this?
Also, I think someone posted a link top Jared Watney's Youtube channel / teak Cleaning video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYIj5S5UY9c. Whilst I might use the washing powder / vinegar technique for a mid season clean I do think think that the Doodlebug pads look good for teak cleaning as does K2R (can you get this in Spain?) to I will invest in these before the season.
HI Pete,
I'd second Portofino's point in that it looks a bit grey and patchy still. Certainly not ready for a protection application IMHO although it would still accept it and look ok.
It's hard to tell for certain due to not knowing the time between the teak drying and taking the photo, but it looks to me that (in the top right of the picture) the second part of the Wessex (neutraliser) hasn't neutralised the part 1 completely? Perhaps it's just not as dry as the rest.
Extra effort in the prep does make all the difference; the trick is prepping to the point that the teak looks new without any protection just as you would polish gel coat to a high clarity - before applying protection.
The trouble with applying protection to the above condition is that the grey (oxidised, natural teak oil that has risen) will float the applied protection rather than it being absorbed correctly within the grain.
The colour will be off and so will the durability, the same applies if you have un-neutralised part 1 (even if dry) within the grain. Allowing the 1st part to remain on the teak for too long before neutralising will also dull and darken the teak.
It's a hands and kneepad job, with focus on very small areas at a time. Gloved fingers, rather than doodlebug on broom.
It may seem like the long route, but it's the right route.
Pre-soaking is important.
Use individual medium stiff scotch pads for each part. These will enable you to scrub without raking out the grain.
Rinsing is also very important and is almost another stage on its own. Cleaning while rinsing with a running hose will continue to leach dirt and the 2nd part chemical long after most would finish.
It's tempting to simply rinse the 2 part away with a quick swish so the majority is gone, but some chemical will remain, this will break down the Semco protection early and also stop a correct bond in the first place.
Often I'll allow to dry and then start again but just with the 2nd part, some require a complete second run or even third before you're home.
After a deep clean and being left to dry completely, a light sanding would help. It's an effective way to remove the hardened grey bits as seen in the lower part of the footrest section. These are almost corn-like and all the Wessex and scrubbing won't be anywhere nearly as capable as a light sand. It's also an excellent prep for the protection to be accepted.
There's a lot more to it of course, and the variables are vast, but good effort in the prep will make the difference, not just initial results but also in the durability.
On the subject of Gtechniq's D3 deck protection; I have a sorry tale to tell..
My neighbours were moving out, and the wife asked if I would like their old solid teak garden table, of course, me being a true skip magpie, I accepted her generous offer.
It needed a heavy clean from years of neglect, but I thought it would make a fine product comparison test bed and of course - a handy garden table.
Wasting no time, I set about deep cleaning and sanding.
Gtechniq had sent me some D3 a while back, and I hadn't got round to testing it out, seeing as their other products impressed I was keen to know if it was a contender to Semco's sealant which IMHO is a tough act to follow and my go-to product of choice.
I could study the repellency, durability and looks over the months (albeit without foot traffic) for both Semco and Gtechniq.
A while later there was a knock at my door.
A very sheepish looking neighbour apologised but said she hadn't checked with her husband if the table could be gifted and could they have it back as he was quite keen on it.
Disappointed? Yes, but of course I agreed to give the table back.
I walked her to my workshop and showed her the now deep cleaned and prepped table, she seemed pleased although a little embarrased and wasn't quite sure what to say, I don't think she wasn't expecting things to get more uncomfortable.
"Consider it a leaving present," I said.
So sadly, I've lost my test bed and haven't an opinion on D3 as yet other than testing out the hydrophobic properties on some scrap teak offcuts.
I did, however, receive a bottle of Laverstoke's finest for my efforts, which was very kind of them.
I'll get the ball rolling again and perhaps add several other teak products for a decent teak-off comparison, maybe start another thread and we can follow each product and its progress over the year?
Tony