More stupid questions :)

[spindly_killer_fish]

Hi all,

There seems to be a general guideline that says you should expect "20% boat value per year for maintenance"

Im kinda struggling with this idea, for example I cant see the requirement for 30k per year maintenance costs for lets say a 2015 150k 40ft boat.

Can someone explain to me how this works?

Cheers

 

[Fr J Hackett]

It doesn't but there will periodically be big items like sails and rigging replacement and maybe engine but even then they won't add up to 20% of value on most cruising boats.

Little and often like many things and preventative maintenance rather than waiting till something breaks and causes other problems.

 

[capnsensible]

It's not just maintenence. The mooring fees are a big chunk if you stay in marinas. Insurance can be pricey.

But I reckon it's nearer 10% with yachts I've owned.

 

[pmagowan]

There is no fixed cost. You can have a mooring for close to nought or a marina for 10k. As for kit, there is lots of second hand stuff from people who like fashion over practicality and almost everything on a boat can be maintained and fixed by an amateur with a modest toolkit and access to YouTube.

 

[spindly_killer_fish]

I wasnt aware that the % included things like moorings/marinas. i'm guessing for marinas, the best idea for just staying in the UK is goto the cheapest boatfolk marina, get a yearly berth and then spend a month in each of their marinas around the UK?

 

[ChathamSailor]

Hi all,

There seems to be a general guideline that says you should expect "20% boat value per year for maintenance"

Im kinda struggling with this idea, for example I cant see the requirement for 30k per year maintenance costs for lets say a 2015 150k 40ft boat.

Can someone explain to me how this works?

Cheers

Not sure, roughly £10k marina fees, £1k lift out, scrub, cradle hire, lift back) £4k repairs and servicing ( including antifouling, engine, life jackets, flares, life raft) £4k annual upgrades, £1k insurances, charts, etc. So probably about £20k per year if south coast and professionally done.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Not sure, roughly £10k marina fees, £1k lift out, scrub, cradle hire, lift back) £4k repairs and servicing ( including antifouling, engine, life jackets, flares, life raft) £4k annual upgrades, £1k insurances, charts, etc. So probably about £20k per year if south coast and professionally done.

Sobering thought that I would be paying well over £8K for an annual berth and winter storage then antifoul on top plus the work and all the rest of the expense so perhaps when you amortise all the other big items and the continual improvements / replacements 20% of value for running a yacht is not far off although the OP did say maintenance.

 

[spindly_killer_fish]

I suppose if you're not annually berthed in the UK and cruising, that's drastically reduced considering moorings and anchorages

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I suppose if you're not annually berthed in the UK and cruising, that's drastically reduced considering moorings and anchorages

If you spend a lot of time on the hook there is a big chunk out of it but full time cruising has it's own maintenance problems and costs as the boat is in continual service so wear and tear are much higher. All the other items will still be there.

 

[ChathamSailor]

I was on a swing mooring for 5 years it’s fine but a very different experience ( less expensive, but like comparing AirBNB with a lovely Hotel)

 

[spindly_killer_fish]

oof i may have to reconsider my plans :/

 

[Tranona]

Percentage of boat value is nonsense as moorings in particular are a fixed cost related to location type of mooring and size of boat. Likewise ongoing maintenance has a fixed element (things that must be done) then costs related to type and level of usage, then periodic significant replacements followed by discretionary expenditure on changes and upgrades.

 

[xyachtdave]

That 20% ratio for a sub £10K boat is about right, even a swinging mooring with half decent access, some club fees, winter storage and a bit of maintenance done yourself is likely to be well north of £2k.

Obviously a £100k boat kept in the same location doesn't need an extra £18k every year to maintain.

The example given above of £20k for dropping a 40 footer in one of the most expensive marinas in the country and paying someone else to do the maintenance is accurate and probably ideal if you're cash rich and time poor.

You could easily reduce those costs to £5k by doing everything yourself, choosing a different berth and not visiting the chandlers buying 'essential' items you can almost certainly live without.

Have a read of Get Real, Get Gone by Rick Page.

 

[dunedin]

It is true that one shouldn’t buy a big expensive boat and think it might be cheap to maintain. It won’t be.

But these “percentage of purchase price” are nonsense. If you buy a brand new Bavaria (say) it will cost a lot of money, but maintenance, repair and renewal costs (as opposed to marina and insurance etc) should be very low for the first 5-10 years. So a very low percentage of purchase price - perhaps less than 1% (but again percentages are a nonsense measure)
Whereas buying an old wreck of the same size might cost peanuts - but cost more than the purchase price each year in repairs, replacements and updates.
And looking at two identical models - one in perfect shape and one neglected, it is often cheaper to pay more for the better boat than spend a fortune on the neglected one.

Either way boating is rarely cheap, and it is imperative to consider carefully running costs. But these percentage things are rarely of any relevance.

 

[ChathamSailor]

The summary of all this is that boating is usually more expensive that you imagine, and whatever budget one has is usually an underestimate and you wonder why you ever bought a boat. And then one fine sunny day sailing along in silence, enjoying nature and the world is suddenly a better place, and you remember

 

[Bristolfashion]

The cost of boating is very complex to get to grips with - and its effect is rather individual. We're sitting in an absolutely prime, south coast location for £19/night! Are we spending or saving? What would basic holiday accommodation cost? Tomorrow & the next day, we'll be anchoring for £ zero.

I reckon that all you can do is calculate a real cost of purchase - buying price + refit+remedial works + survey, write down all the calculable costs : insurance, berthing, lift, anti foul, electric hook up, fuel, engine service and then make a reasonable maintenance/repair contingency.

 

[spindly_killer_fish]

I suppose my initial thought, on how accurate these numbers are, are me trying to figure out if i can retire early the less i need etc.

 

[Bristolfashion]

I suppose my initial thought, on how accurate these numbers are, are me trying to figure out if i can retire early the less i need etc.

I reckon a spreadsheet is your friend - break everything down into the smallest practical chunks and allocate a minimum and maximum predicted cost - you should be able to get at least some idea of the cost range.

It'll probably scare you though!

 

[ChathamSailor]

Or just do it while you are still working, record the costs over a year or two and then decide if you can afford to fully or partially retire?

 

[Tranona]

There are plenty of examples around of peoples' budgets for liveaboard or cruising at various levels of "luxury" and types of boats. with the major costs the easiest to predict are mooring costs once you have decided on what type of mooring and where. The next easiest is subsistence if you are living aboard as this generally reflects the same as on shore adjusted a bit according to location. Costs underway rather than moored/berthed are lower. Annual haulout and storage are fairly predictable as is insurance. The ones most difficult to predict and budget for are refit costs particularly after buying a used boat (which are always greater than your most generous estimate in both time and money!) and replacement costs, although with a well found boat the timing of these is often discretionary. Your personal expectations of standards and DIY ability both can have a significant impact on what you can achieve for a given level of budget.