Ink
Active member
.
Well it certainly wasn't necessary a couple of years ago.... when we had the freedom to travel within Shengen. [Content removed.]
Ink
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More detail emerges on ETIAS for those of us who sail to France etc
- Thread starter chrishscorp
- Start date
Well it certainly wasn't necessary a couple of years ago.... when we had the freedom to travel within Shengen. [Content removed.]
Ink
dom
Well-known member
[Content removed]; at this stage most people just want to figure out the new rules and get on with life:
1. Which streets am I no longer allowed to drive on?
2. Can I sail from Portsmouth to Roscoff, then Treguier, then home?
3. What is the position for a UK flagged vessel carrying people with EU passports?
4. Should I get a dual passport?
5. Etc., etc.
Can we not agree that it's in all of our interests to safeguard some space for these practical discussions to happen without it being swamped by endless Brexit recriminations and bickering?
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dom
Well-known member
I was talking to a friend of mine in Cherbourg who tells me that many French businesses are lamenting the loss of British visiting yachts.
For me, the most important challenge is that we rekindle our pre-Brexit friendships and business relationships.
The starting point is to ensure that French and other boats feel welcomed by British yachtsman and that, as a community, we are not going to be separated by the endless political argy bargy.
FWIW, this already happened in racing circles and I would - optimistically - expect that cruisy folk won't be far behind!!
Right, back to those visas.....
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lustyd
Well-known member
No, I think that's explained by the focus of the forum around boats. There are plenty of political forums around and if you want to get really rabbid there's always the BBC have your say. I've been done a few times on this forum and I don't begrudge it despite my feelings on the topic
DJE
Well-known member
Exactly the impression that I got from correspondence with Chebourg Marina earlier this year. They and the town in general were very keen to have us back, the Covid restrictions were just about manageable, but the customs and immigration requirements were vague and ambiguous. We stayed this side of the channel.
I don't see that the ETIAS requirements will improve the situation. Quite the contrary.
chrishscorp
Well-known member
Exactly this ^^^^
Hopefully Covid 19 will calm down and a good number of us will be able to consider sailing back to Europe though it does sound like it could be interesting with new regulations in force, the combined knowledge and experience of the forum will make that easier.
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st599
Well-known member
The rules for arriving and departing are different per country. The RYA did an excellent webinar on the new rules which should be on their site and will hopefully be updated in time.
Basically you have to check in and out, and it's up to you to see that you do (so for example if the office is shut to check out, you have to hang around until it opens). How you do that differs by member state - in France it's at a Port of Entry, Belgium have an app, Germany have terminals at major marinas. UK is meant to have an app, but it doesn't work yet.
At the moment EU Schengen days are based on the stamps in your passport - as of next year it will be centralised (EES). Once centralised overstayer flags will be applied automatically.
Some time after that a pre-check, valid for 2 years has to be obtained.
Basically you have to check in and out, and it's up to you to see that you do (so for example if the office is shut to check out, you have to hang around until it opens). How you do that differs by member state - in France it's at a Port of Entry, Belgium have an app, Germany have terminals at major marinas. UK is meant to have an app, but it doesn't work yet.
At the moment EU Schengen days are based on the stamps in your passport - as of next year it will be centralised (EES). Once centralised overstayer flags will be applied automatically.
Some time after that a pre-check, valid for 2 years has to be obtained.
Stork_III
Well-known member
The ETIAS pre-check authorisation is for 3 years, or the length of your passport validity if shorter.
TiggerToo
Well-known member
Is all this keruffle down to the identity of the people on board, or the status of the vessel (flag/VAT/registration)?
I mean, if I have a right to arrive and roam in Schengen without all this extra additional red tape and passport ink (be it liquid of electronic), do I even have to bother with learning about ETIAS and other obscure procedures?
I mean, if I have a right to arrive and roam in Schengen without all this extra additional red tape and passport ink (be it liquid of electronic), do I even have to bother with learning about ETIAS and other obscure procedures?
Bathdave
Well-known member
the identity of the persons, and hence their rights to free movement
the new ETIAS will apply to people who do NOT have free movement throughout schengen
TiggerToo
Well-known member
OK, so I can simply ignore this (depending on who else might be on board).
@Stork_III can you pls confirm that we are reading this correctly?
Stork_III
Well-known member
It only applies to third country citizens, without residence rights, who have Visa free access to Schengen area.
st599
Well-known member
I thought there was also an issue with EU Citizens who are Resident in the EU (i.e. not living in the UK) importing a non-EU VAT Boat. I'd have to check the RYA webinar slides though.
DJE
Well-known member
No mention of this on the RYA pages. But otherwise they seem to be a good summary of the current situation.
franksingleton
Well-known member
We sailed to and back from France this year. Another yacht arrived at L’Aber Wrac’h, without prior notification, direct from the UK. No problem. They told the capitainerie who contacted Brest customs. They were told to go to Brest by taxi or bus and clear customs there. Had it been convenient to the officials, they might have had to wait until customs came to them.
When we were wanting to leave, we were in Lezardrieux. The nearest port of entry is St Brieuc. We asked if we could go to St Brieuc either from Lezardrieux, not convenient, or fro St Quai Portrieux, much easier. They said yes. In the event, for weather reasons, we went back to Roscoff and thence to Mylor.
The point of all this seems to be that we could have arrived at and left from anywhere as long as we visited customs and not necessarily at the port of arrival or departure. Obviously, I cannot be sure thst every customs officer will see it this way. The impression that we got was that they were reasonable people. What is clear is that you must get passports stamped on entry and departure.
When we were wanting to leave, we were in Lezardrieux. The nearest port of entry is St Brieuc. We asked if we could go to St Brieuc either from Lezardrieux, not convenient, or fro St Quai Portrieux, much easier. They said yes. In the event, for weather reasons, we went back to Roscoff and thence to Mylor.
The point of all this seems to be that we could have arrived at and left from anywhere as long as we visited customs and not necessarily at the port of arrival or departure. Obviously, I cannot be sure thst every customs officer will see it this way. The impression that we got was that they were reasonable people. What is clear is that you must get passports stamped on entry and departure.
Slowboat35
Well-known member
Interesting article in today's Times.
Warning of chaos at holiday ports next year under new EU entry rules
If the land-based system is as clumsliy thought out as this article suggests what hope do niche groups like mariners have in finding a workable solution?
I well recall the days before freedom from borders when a light aircraft trip to France involved the most ridiculous schenanigans of circuitous routing via expensive and time consuming exit and entry airports, and the sheer bliss of the freedom to travel when and when you wanted the following week when sanity finally prevailed. Suddenly day trips to your choice of Fraench destinations became practical instead of being forced to visit bloody Le Touquet via Southend again. In boaty terms, think weekend trips. Unless you're based at a port of entry here and only visit a port of entry there weekend trips are gone...
Sadly the insanity of Brexit has screwed us back into the dark ages in this respect, inappropriate and inconvenient routings that will likely add a day or so to the simple matter of getting to your destination in each drection, and unless we can reach some agreement for an internet based self-reporting system (the old one was fax based wasn't it, and worked just fine) travel to Europe for shorter visits once again becomes a significant and pointless burden.
Spending the best part of a day figuring out local transport to a distant port of entry (and assuming that the relevant offices are even open) just to get some ink on a piece of paper is not the way I wish to spend my sailing trips.
Warning of chaos at holiday ports next year under new EU entry rules
If the land-based system is as clumsliy thought out as this article suggests what hope do niche groups like mariners have in finding a workable solution?
I well recall the days before freedom from borders when a light aircraft trip to France involved the most ridiculous schenanigans of circuitous routing via expensive and time consuming exit and entry airports, and the sheer bliss of the freedom to travel when and when you wanted the following week when sanity finally prevailed. Suddenly day trips to your choice of Fraench destinations became practical instead of being forced to visit bloody Le Touquet via Southend again. In boaty terms, think weekend trips. Unless you're based at a port of entry here and only visit a port of entry there weekend trips are gone...
Sadly the insanity of Brexit has screwed us back into the dark ages in this respect, inappropriate and inconvenient routings that will likely add a day or so to the simple matter of getting to your destination in each drection, and unless we can reach some agreement for an internet based self-reporting system (the old one was fax based wasn't it, and worked just fine) travel to Europe for shorter visits once again becomes a significant and pointless burden.
Spending the best part of a day figuring out local transport to a distant port of entry (and assuming that the relevant offices are even open) just to get some ink on a piece of paper is not the way I wish to spend my sailing trips.
steveinnice
N/A
How do you think I would be affected? I have a u.k. passport but haven't lived in u.k. since 1965 I now live in Ireland ( 16 years) and my boat is not registered as there is no requirement to in Ireland. If I want to sail to my second house in France ( Menton, so I would have to land somewhere before I get there ) which country's rules will I be classified by?
DJE
Well-known member
There's no requirement for a boat to be registered in UK either. But if you want to visit a foreign port the boat must wear the ensign of the state where it is registered. A bit tricky if it's not registered.
chrishscorp
Well-known member
I cant believe I am even saying this, but throw away your British Passport and get an Irish one and you will then have much fewer problems.
Boat wise you will need to register French or Irish where do you spend more time ?
steveinnice
N/A
Ireland most of the time. I think I need to keep my English passport as I lived in Australia for over 40 years and still have assets there. I can see that if I relinquish my U.K passport I will get stung with "foreign ownership issues" (In Oz, English passport holders have the same rights mostly, as Australian citizens. I haven't looked into it much as I've just recently retired and until now it hasn't been an issue.