Moody sailing performance vs Westerly

[Barton Seagoon]

I am part of a group looking for something around 30 feet length, probably 35 to 40 years old to fit our budget. The purpose is for cruising, but we want decent sailing preformance so that passage times will be good and we can sail in both light winds and stronger ones. The Westerly Fulmar is well regarded, and we have had a good helpful chat with Roger Clark of Concerto, but do any other Westerlys such as Merlin or Konsort come close? Or how about Moody 29/30/31/33?

I have read many good articles in the forum about their relative merits for comfort and build quality, but how about performance, especialy of the fin keel models? What experience do people have that can enlighten us? I don't think I have duplicated any earlier thread, but please correct me if I have missed one.

Thanks,
Barton (plus Chris and Mike).

 

[bitbaltic]

Probably helps to tell us the budget.

 

[Barton Seagoon]

Probably helps to tell us the budget.

I would like to keep the purchase price below £24k, which will reach the asking price of several boats advertised at the moment.

 

[johnalison]

Although I haven’t sailed them, I would say that the Merlin and Konsort wouldn’t compare with the Moody/Fulmar mentioned. Both do what it says on the tin but the Merlin is much smaller and the Konsort generally stodgier. The Moody 30 seems to be a decent boat but the 31/33 being later will be more expensive. I am referring only to sailing performance.

 

[chrishscorp]

Length - Rig - Keel - Prop - Yardstick

Konsort

29

S

B

2

1129

Merlin28

28

S

F

2

1107

Merlin29

29

S

F

2

1097

Fulmar32

32

S

F

2

1006

The Portsmouth yardstick numbers for the Westerlies you have mentioned, for a fast cruiser we went Fulmar. Both Merlin and Konsort are good boats dont get me wrong but if your looking for faster passage on longer legs times then its a Fulmar.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I sometimes sail my Moody 31 Mk II alongside a friend's Westerly of the same length - not sure what model, but it's a centre cockpit bilge keel ketch. I have no trouble at all in staying ahead of her. Notably, I pick up speed faster in a gust, and I think I'm a bit more weatherly

 

[Pete7]

Barton, the Fulmar is full foot longer and lighter than the Moody M31, similar size to the S31 but these later yachts will be out of budget. That ought to make a difference depending on sailing skills but only if you can keep the Fulmar light. For example, if you are going x channel, do you need full water and fuel tanks? or just go with half full ones and top up on arrival.

I take it you have seen the Fulmar in Portland with the lift keel, a rare boat with an interesting option if you ever wanted to do the French canals. Looks like it has been re-engined which is a huge bonus and would swing it for me.

The other option is a Moody 33s which has a different layout from most Moodys and might suit you. They are in your price range. Maxine and Neil have a You Tube channel about theirs:

https://www.youtube.com/c/AdventuresofSeaPigeon/videos

 

[Sandy]

I am part of a group looking for something around 30 feet length, probably 35 to 40 years old to fit our budget. The purpose is for cruising, but we want decent sailing preformance so that passage times will be good and we can sail in both light winds and stronger ones. The Westerly Fulmar is well regarded, and we have had a good helpful chat with Roger Clark of Concerto, but do any other Westerlys such as Merlin or Konsort come close? Or how about Moody 29/30/31/33?

I have read many good articles in the forum about their relative merits for comfort and build quality, but how about performance, especialy of the fin keel models? What experience do people have that can enlighten us? I don't think I have duplicated any earlier thread, but please correct me if I have missed one.

Thanks,
Barton (plus Chris and Mike).

If you are planning to cruise internal layout, storage and being able to sail short handed are higher priorities than speed.

 

[Barton Seagoon]

If you are planning to cruise internal layout, storage and being able to sail short handed are higher priorities than speed.

Absolutely right, and we are using photos and layout drawings to research those important factors. We have ruled out designs that are mostly aimed at racing, as they are too cramped inside and have very limited storage. Performance of cruisers is more difficult to find information on though, hence this appeal to the collected knowledge of the forum.

 

[Graham376]

I sometimes sail my Moody 31 Mk II alongside a friend's Westerly of the same length - not sure what model, but it's a centre cockpit bilge keel ketch. I have no trouble at all in staying ahead of her. Notably, I pick up speed faster in a gust, and I think I'm a bit more weatherly

Different hull shapes and you're comparing a (most likely 1970s Pentland) ketch with a sloop which I would expect to be faster.

 

[dunedin]

I sometimes sail my Moody 31 Mk II alongside a friend's Westerly of the same length - not sure what model, but it's a centre cockpit bilge keel ketch. I have no trouble at all in staying ahead of her. Notably, I pick up speed faster in a gust, and I think I'm a bit more weatherly

As Graham says, an old Westerly ketch is massively differnt from the Fulmar or later Westerly’s. The Fulmar was designed by Ed Dubois and completely transformed the performance of Westerly yachts, without losing the practical interior and seaworthiness.
The very much later Moody 336 (and bigger S38) similarly transformed Moody performance, but likely to be more recent and out of OP budget.

If you are planning to cruise internal layout, storage and being able to sail short handed are higher priorities than speed.

These are clearly also important, but for a SAILING yacht, sailing ability - in its widest sense, both performance and seakeeping - is very important to many of us.
Well designed boats like Ed Dubois Fulmar managed to combine excellent performance with excellent seagoing interior - and with an autopilot, being well balanced and all controls led back easy to single hand (as Concerto has shown).
Other examples of great boats combining performance and practicality around this size include the Moddy 336 and the Elan 333.

 

[PetiteFleur]

May I suggest the Moody 33mk2, I am biased as I have one - should be within your budget, ammeter have been regularly updated, others need some tlc. We've cruised ours on the East Coast, Holland Belgium and France. Centre cockpit but seperate rear cabin - ideal for grandchildren. Mk 1 are cheaper but different layout which I don't like. Comfortable when cruising but not a racer.

 

[Barton Seagoon]

May I suggest the Moody 33mk2, I am biased as I have one - Comfortable when cruising but not a racer.

Thanks for the suggestion. What typical speed do you plan with on a journey of 6 hours or so? Also, how is the light wind performance on that? I have heard some stories of them being a bit sluggish in winds below F4. These stories could of course be rubbish!

 

[Tranona]

Thanks for the suggestion. What typical speed do you plan with on a journey of 6 hours or so? Also, how is the light wind performance on that? I have heard some stories of them being a bit sluggish in winds below F4. These stories could of course be rubbish!

Not sure about this seeming obsession with "performance" All of the boats (plus others like Sadlers) you mention were designed for comfortable family cruising. Actual cruising performance is far more dependent on how you go about it and the sort of gear that you have at your disposal than about any numbers derived differences in sailing performance. Far more important to choose a boat that you are comfortable with and crucially in your budget range is just about ready to go. You are looking at boats from the late 70s and early 80s and they are all much of a muchness. There are of course some that stand out as being a bit above the others performance wise like the Fulmar and the Sadler 34, but the latter is outside your budget and the former top end.

With regard to passage times, most of these boats will achieve typically 5 knots - so 12-14 hours Solent to Cherbourg depending on where you start and how much lift you get from the tide. An easy way to consistently knock an hour of that with any of the boats mentioned is to fit a folding or feathering propeller. I mention this because the quality of your gear and sailing skills have a major impact on passage times. Put is another way I expect a Merlin 29 prepared to the level that Concerto is and sailed by Roger would beat an average Fulmar with baggy sails and a less experienced helm.

The debate would be different if you were planning extensive round the cans racing where basic sailing statistics have a greater impact, but from what you say you are 3 blokes wanting a competent cruising boat. Personally like Petite Fleur the Moody 33 Mk2 (or even a Mk1) would be high on my list. It is big, comfortable and a competent cruising performer. Forget the "sluggish under F4" bit - better sails will go a long way to fixing that. Or stretch another £5k and a Sadler 34 becomes possible.

 

[capnsensible]

May I suggest the Moody 33mk2, I am biased as I have one - should be within your budget, ammeter have been regularly updated, others need some tlc. We've cruised ours on the East Coast, Holland Belgium and France. Centre cockpit but seperate rear cabin - ideal for grandchildren. Mk 1 are cheaper but different layout which I don't like. Comfortable when cruising but not a racer.

I'm biased as well. We lived on ours for 22 years and did two Atlantic circuits. Mind you, averaged about 4 knots!

For normal cruising, we improved the windward performance by changing the old deck sweeping Genoa for a much better one with a higher clew. Crusader sorted this for us, top result.

 

[sailaboutvic]

I had quite a few Moody's over the years and in your range my 336 would be my choice, sails well and fast , good in most sea conditions, good size volume for its size and build well

 

[boomerangben]

Interesting thread. I didn’t pick up on the OPs background and this might answer why performance. If dinghy sailing and in particular dinghy racing, is there, sailing performance is important. You want a boat that you enjoy sailing. I think it’s a great question, the spectrum of sailing boats available in terms of budget, condition, accommodation, and sailing ability is multi dimensional. I won’t pretend I know anything about the choice between Moodys and Westerly’s it is an interesting one and perhaps a question I might one day ask But as Tranona says, boat is only part of the story, state of sails, anti fouling,and deftness of hand on sheets and helm might make more of an impact than type.

 

[Barton Seagoon]

As you have guessed (probably from my Mirror Dinghy photo, taken about 45 years ago), we are all ex-dinghy sailors, although with around 14 years experience in chartering yachts that we can't afford to buy. We vary in our tendency to tweak every control line to get an extra half knot, but knowing which boats start with an advantage would be handy. Thanks for all the input so far, folks

 

[jwilson]

Rather than out and out speed - which is fairly well assessed by handicap numbers, though due to race courses always having windward legs these are inevitably weighted towards windward performance - what is also of interest is the "feel" of a boat if you like actually sailing. There are boats that are quite tolerably fast but are "dead" to the helm: you can't get "into the groove" to windward and it takes a lot of concentration to keep them on track. Others just feel right and are easy to helm.

 

[SaltyC]

Interesting thread. I didn’t pick up on the OPs background and this might answer why performance. If dinghy sailing and in particular dinghy racing, is there, sailing performance is important. You want a boat that you enjoy sailing. I think it’s a great question, the spectrum of sailing boats available in terms of budget, condition, accommodation, and sailing ability is multi dimensional. I won’t pretend I know anything about the choice between Moodys and Westerly’s it is an interesting one and perhaps a question I might one day ask But as Tranona says, boat is only part of the story, state of sails, anti fouling,and deftness of hand on sheets and helm might make more of an impact than type.

I completely agree, as a cruiser I do not want the last 0.1 Knot of speed, however, with a 40 mile passage @ 4 knots 10 hours, at 5 knots 8 Hours. That can be the difference in missing a 'lock in' on tidal harbours. Or V fractious children.

From the 80's the boats COULD sail, more important is YOU setting the sails correctly and the sails being a decent quality / age and shape.

It is establishing your priorities, after sailing a Westerly 22 to windawrd, as fast sideways as forwards, the Conway was a revolution.

Having sailed an Angus Primrose Moody 33, not impressed (early 80's), I would opt for the Conway - personal preference. The Older Moody's were undercanvassed, but sailed well in 15K plus. Later ones just sailed well with good accommodation. This years trip on a 376 left me very impressed with its performance.

Summary, once you get to 80's design, generally they will sail with someone who sets the well cut sails correctly.