Moody Keel Options

[Crisby]

Hello everybody, seeking some advice please.

We are currently in the process of buying our next boat and have narrowed it down to the Moody 42. We have looked at several and close to making an offer but one of our doubts is the keel options.

I appreciate the benefits of shoal draft (spent a lot of time in Poole harbour and the Solent) and also appreciate that, all things being equal, the deeper fin keel will point higher with less leeway than the shallow fin. We are happy to compromise generally as all boats are basically a compromise but I understand that the rolling motion of a boat is felt more on a centre cockpit boat then an aft cockpit.

So my question is, will a difference in draft of 1.8m versus 1.5m have any significant affect on the rolling motion?

Our cruising waters will be the med initially and then further afield.

Many thanks

 

[sailaboutvic]

Hi Crosby
The 42 has a draft of 1.85, with a small torpode on the bottom end of the keel .
As I have no experience of the 1.5 other them on a much small Moody 336 some years back which wasn't a CC So I can't really comment ,
But we don't find the rolling on our any more then mono with a small keel , although I guess they may be.
Just some thing to concider , if at any time you may concider using the canal to get the boat back or to the Med , you have the option with a 1.5 daft but not with a deeper one .

There a few things you need to look out for on a 42 maybe owner over look when you ask them if there any problem .

one is the lazarette because the 42 has a rise toe rail water can't escape so run down the deck on one side there are two very small fitting on the other side to one small fitting and the gas bottle casing but most will end up trying to get out in the two Small fitting in side the channel in the lazarette hatchs ,
where it tend to over fill end up in the bilge , if like me and hate wet bilge it's real problem , but there is a way around this .

The other is the rudders steering tube , some have lips seals other a bush with ring seals , no idea why but the tube site only a few CM above the water line , any added weight in the back end as in. Generator with drop the stern down enough so the top is at water lever when under way the stern will be push further under water and increase the likelihood of water entering pass the seals and into the boat .

Another problem is the balance water tanks , where if you wanted to top both tanks up to the top , it can take some tIme and it there is the slight of leak as in a fault tank gauge as the boat heels water pressure will end see some of your water in the bilge .
All these problem can be rectify with some work and imagination .
There are other minor problem but afther saying that what boat don't have problems .

But the 42 is a very good liveaboard or long distance cruising boat , the cockpit is large enough to socialise, ten is our tops with some sitting on the top of the stern berth but well in reach to have a conversation .
The stern berth is fantastic and very comfortable.
Lots of storages.
For a heavy boat she sails very well it's not unusual for us to seeing over 7/.5 kts in a decent wind and our sails or old , being replace as I write .
We have ripped our to bits to do a major refit so there not much we not uncover I think it's safe to say we know the 42 pretty well now .
If you decide to go for a 42 and want any more info happy to help .
Although I understand the MOA have a good intel.

 

[Crisby]

Hi Vic

Thanks for the reply, it’s always easy to see the good things in a boat but not so easy to see the problems so thanks for the info, some of which I was aware of (thanks to the MOA) and some I wasn’t.

The boats we have seen have varied from boat show condition to needing a big refit and if we go down the refit route you might want to keep your computer switched off!

It’s encouraging to hear about the boats motion which backs up what I’ve read elsewhere, we don’t mind some ‘motion in the ocean’ but if we can minimise it the longer passages should be a bit less tiring. Having said that we’ll be at anchor more than at sea so the shoal draft will be handy then.......!

 

[DuncanHall]

I have the deep draft version so cannot comment re rolling for the shallow draft model. The deep draft version is a very steady vessel and sails well I echo the problems with the lazerette seals but these can be fixed with an appropriate seal.
There is a problem with the water tanks . However its easy to fix. For some reason they used a steel fitting between two brass fittings to access the tanks. As a result the starboard tank which is second to fill as it does so via the balancing pipe gets a restricted access due to corrosion of the steel. Its easy to fix once you recognize the problem.

I recommend getting temporary membership to the MOA. They are very knowledgeable.

 

[Crisby]

Hi Duncan

Thanks for your reply, we joined the MOA as temporary members a little while ago as soon as we decided what we wanted and it does indeed have a huge amount of information available, something we will need if we go down the refit route.
The keel decision will determine the refit or not as it is a shoal keel boat that will need the refit

 

[capnsensible]

If you are going offshore then a deeper keel would, for me, be the choice. However, you would have to be some kinda genius to notice any difference in a near gale half way over the Atlantic!

Good luck with what ever you choose! :encouragement:

 

[Crisby]

Capnsensible, thank you. For what it’s worth the shoal draft ballast is higher than the fin (3375kg against 3149kg) so stability should be very similar, just trying to find out if the motion would be any different.

 

[Graham376]

We have the scheel keel (4'6") Moody 376 and sailed in company with a 376 with standard 5'6" keel, from northern Portugal to Camaret. No noticeable difference in performance. Dried out alongside on the scheel keel it's very stable, don't know about the other keel.

 

[Crisby]

Hi Graham

Thnanks for that, great to hear a direct comparison. Although it’s not the scheel keel we’re looking at but perhaps Moody tried ensure all the keel variations sailed similarly.

 

[Richard10002]

Hi Graham

Thnanks for that, great to hear a direct comparison. Although it’s not the scheel keel we’re looking at but perhaps Moody tried ensure all the keel variations sailed similarly.

Isn’t the scheel keel the same as the shoal keel on a Moody. I had a 44 with the shallower keel for 4 years - about 5ft I think. Able to get into places that deeper keels couldn’t go, but performance to windward was very poor. I obviously don’t know how it compared to the fin keel.

 

[sailaboutvic]

I have the deep draft version so cannot comment re rolling for the shallow draft model. The deep draft version is a very steady vessel and sails well I echo the problems with the lazerette seals but these can be fixed with an appropriate seal.
There is a problem with the water tanks . However its easy to fix. For some reason they used a steel fitting between two brass fittings to access the tanks. As a result the starboard tank which is second to fill as it does so via the balancing pipe gets a restricted access due to corrosion of the steel. Its easy to fix once you recognize the problem.

I recommend getting temporary membership to the MOA. They are very knowledgeable.

Duncan
have two question if I may ,

The first question , do you know what your builder certificate Says is the weight for the 42 deep keel , my state 16 tons , which seen quite a lot ? the two times we been haul out they not been able to weigh it .

The second will be no interest to the OP , so it you don't mind I PM you to save taken up more space here as as it going to take some describing .
Thanks

 

[DuncanHall]

Duncan
have two question if I may ,

The first question , do you know what your builder certificate Says is the weight for the 42 deep keel , my state 16 tons , which seen quite a lot ? the two times we been haul out they not been able to weigh it .

The second will be no interest to the OP , so it you don't mind I PM you to save taken up more space here as as it going to take some describing .
Thanks

I dont have cert to hand but MOA archive

https://moodyowners.org/Moody_Archives/33_boat.htm

says 10520kg

I think the 16 tonne figure is the registered tonnage which has no relation to the actual weight.

Duncan

 

[sailaboutvic]

I dont have cert to hand but MOA archive

https://moodyowners.org/Moody_Archives/33_boat.htm

says 10520kg

I think the 16 tonne figure is the registered tonnage which has no relation to the actual weight.

Duncan

Just had another look It say estimated tonnage 16.16 .
You may be right ,
Hope that next time we out we can get it weighted .
I pm you the other question so not to get a threat drift
Thanks

 

[Crisby]

Hi Richard, I thought the scheel keel had winglets but having just googled it the first picture that came up looked just like the ones we have seen on the M42s.

Was the upwind performance dire or just poor and did the boat roll much? I appreciate the hulls were different and, like I say I expect some compromises, just checking what I’m letting myself in for!

Thanks again

 

[Pasarell]

I have a shoal draft 44 and find her very comfortable to sail. 2nd year now and no problem with rolling and she also goes to windward pretty well. A couple of days ago I got into an unofficial race to windward through the Megannissi Channel with a modern Beneteau 42 and an older IOR style boat of about 50ft. We were on a par with pointing with both, leeway probably less than the Beneteau but not a lot in it, and a bit more than the IOR boat. Speed similar to the Beneteau but slower than the IOR boat as you would expect. In the end we "won" the race but due mainly to a favourable wind shift at the end of the channel.
I wanted the shoal draft particularly to do the French canals at some time in the future. As you know the ballast on the shoal draft is slightly more than the fin version so Cof G is the same place.
Re the lasarette lockers and drainage that Vic mentioned we have a similar issue with water but a previous owner sealed the drains into the bilge and fitted a small hand bilge pump in each. One occasionally has some water in it but the other has always been dry due to seals around the top. Would be very irritating if that water ended up in the main bilge!
Echo the other comments about the MOA. A great resource.


Vic, I would be very surprised if you weight is 16 tonnes. Mine is 10.5 tonnes dry weight.

Regards
Peter

 

[Crisby]

Hi Peter, thanks for the reply, love the Megannissi channel, just about the only place I’ve been where you can be on every point of sail at some point within a 2 mile stretch without changing direction!

Thanks for giving me your experience of the shoal keel’s abilities, very reassuring.

 

[Graham376]

Isn’t the scheel keel the same as the shoal keel on a Moody. I had a 44 with the shallower keel for 4 years - about 5ft I think. Able to get into places that deeper keels couldn’t go, but performance to windward was very poor. I obviously don’t know how it compared to the fin keel.

This is our keel but I don't know if all models of shallow draught are Scheel.

 

[Pasarell]

This is our keel but I don't know if all models of shallow draught are Scheel.

Mine is similar although the bulge at the bottom is probably rather bigger. Not wings but I can certainly stand a cup of coffee on it without any danger of spillage

 

[Crisby]

View attachment 72205

This is the shoal keel we’ve been looking at

 

[Tranona]

This is our keel but I don't know if all models of shallow draught are Scheel.

That is a "proper" Scheel keel. The difference between that and the other one is clear to see. Admiral (I think - high up anyway) Scheel patented the particular shape and proportions of the bulb so inevitably others tried to copy it while avoiding paying for a licence to use it. The claim is that the loss of windward performance is minimised.

There are now many variations of the concept on the market with similar claims such as the Bruce Farr designed one on my Bavaria. They all seem to aim for a 15-20% reduction in draft and weigh about 10% more than the deep keel option to reduce or eliminate any loss of stability. The loss is in the depth and leading edge of the keel as a foil and a greater chord which might affect pointing ability.

The plus side is that it helps people like me who like sailing is shallower waters like Poole and particularly allowing quite big boats to transit the French canals. The longer chord and wider base also make drying out easier.