Moody 42 rudder

sailaboutvic

sailaboutvic

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Do anyone have an drawing or have taken apart the rudder of a Moody 42 ?
I have a very small leak , more of a drip coming from the top of the rudder shaft .
Pressing on what I through was a seal , water would drip out ,
Today on removing what I through was a seal turned out to be a plastic washer ,
underneath looks like the plastic bush bearing ,
Now I a bit lost , because I understood that there should be two lip seal to stop splash back .
Can anyone confirm this ?
There only about 14 mm between the top of the bearing bush to where the tube stop , so I can't see how two seals would fit in that gap.
 
sailaboutvic said:
Do anyone have an drawing or have taken apart the rudder of a Moody 42 ?
I have a very small leak , more of a drip coming from the top of the rudder shaft .
Pressing on what I through was a seal , water would drip out ,
Today on removing what I through was a seal turned out to be a plastic washer ,
underneath looks like the plastic bush bearing ,
Now I a bit lost , because I understood that there should be two lip seal to stop splash back .
Can anyone confirm this ?
There only about 14 mm between the top of the bearing bush to where the tube stop , so I can't see how two seals would fit in that gap.
Click to expand...

Check out the moody owners association forum. The best source of technical info and well worth the very modest subs
 
sailaboutvic said:
Do anyone have an drawing or have taken apart the rudder of a Moody 42 ?
I have a very small leak , more of a drip coming from the top of the rudder shaft .
Pressing on what I through was a seal , water would drip out ,
Today on removing what I through was a seal turned out to be a plastic washer ,
underneath looks like the plastic bush bearing ,
Now I a bit lost , because I understood that there should be two lip seal to stop splash back .
Can anyone confirm this ?
There only about 14 mm between the top of the bearing bush to where the tube stop , so I can't see how two seals would fit in that gap.
Click to expand...

Vic .... I'm wondering whether the two-lip seal you talk about is actually a twin-lipped seal? These can be obtained in the same diameter and thickness as single lip seals so you could easily fit in a 7 to 14mm thickness twin-lipped seal.

However, if the seal is above the waterline, I'm not sure why an ordinary single-lipped seal wouldn't be fine anyway as it's not a mission-critical component. Either way, with 14mm available, you could fit in two 7mm seals depending on what ID/OD you are talking about.

Richard
 
RichardS said:
Vic .... I'm wondering whether the two-lip seal you talk about is actually a twin-lipped seal? These can be obtained in the same diameter and thickness as single lip seals so you could easily fit in a 7 to 14mm thickness twin-lipped seal.

However, if the seal is above the waterline, I'm not sure why an ordinary single-lipped seal wouldn't be fine anyway as it's not a mission-critical component. Either way, with 14mm available, you could fit in two 7mm seals depending on what ID/OD you are talking about.

Richard
Click to expand...

i did manage to squeeze a seal in before we left Croatia Richard , but it didn't seen to make much different ,
bit of an made to do job until we had more time .
the plain was always to renew then ,
to day i tho i make a start , as i look down the gap between the shaft and the tube , after removing the plastic washer , what i tho was a seal , all i could see seen to be the white of the top of the bearing .
so i understand there should and two jaffer lip seals colour red or green , from some thing I read in the pass .
the article said they were 50 x 80 , which don't sound right to me , i can just about get an 50x70 seal in ,
it would also mean it would sit directly on top of the bearing .

i might try and call the yards around Southampton to morrow with some luck I might get an ex moody worker with info
 
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Vic,

There is a load of info on the Moody owners website.

You need to search for your specific config. There is mention of getting new seals from Jefa so a call to them might help, although I know it's a Lewmar steering system.

Good luck with it

Tony
 
Jabs said:
Vic,

There is a load of info on the Moody owners website.

You need to search for your specific config. There is mention of getting new seals from Jefa so a call to them might help, although I know it's a Lewmar steering system.

Good luck with it

Tony
Click to expand...

Hi Tony
Funny I was looking for your email last night to email you , some how I lost it .
I seen the article on the Jaffa seal replacement but some how mine don't look the same ,
there don't seen to be any seal sitting on top of the nylon/plastic bearing ,
What I tho was a seal turned out to be. Plastic washer .
that's why I posted here in the hoping someone here had the same problem .
I u derstand this is a problem with the 40/42 .
 
I'm just curious because, sooner or later I will have the problem.

My understanding is that there is or are lip seals on the shaft.

I'm not sure I want to go there unless I have to!

Good luck Vic.
 
Jabs said:
I'm just curious because, sooner or later I will have the problem.

My understanding is that there is or are lip seals on the shaft.

I'm not sure I want to go there unless I have to!

Good luck Vic.
Click to expand...

Just got some good info from princess yacht , there are two type one are roller bearing and they have an O ring seal to replace the rudder has to be drop the other type has a type of nylon bearing ( it not really nylon) they seen to have lip seals .
It looks like mine might have the O ring type ,
Don't want to have a haulout and drop the rudder just yet so I trying plan B , build up the GRP with a SS ring about 8 mm and put a seal in , I can only try .
 
sailaboutvic said:
Just got some good info from princess yacht , there are two type one are roller bearing and they have an O ring seal to replace the rudder has to be drop the other type has a type of nylon bearing ( it not really nylon) they seen to have lip seals .
It looks like mine might have the O ring type ,
Don't want to have a haulout and drop the rudder just yet so I trying plan B , build up the GRP with a SS ring about 8 mm and put a seal in , I can only try .
Click to expand...

Some models of Moody have a stuffing box (stern gland with flat mounting plate) on top of the stern tube, under the quadrant. I suspect some other models could be modified quite easily and it's most likely what I'll do if my seals start to leak.
 
Hi Vic

When I was looking at Moodys, forumite Cantata very kindly provided the following to me, which seems highly relevant to your question. Hope if he reads this he's OK with me re-posting it:

Cantata said:
Right, I've done some digging on the website and in the furthest recesses of my memory.
...
The Moodys in question were originally fitted with Whitlock steering systems. Whitlock was bought by Lewmar in the 1990's.

The system used on the rudders of these Moodys had a metal tube glassed in to the hull, inside which are bearings for the rudder shaft. Above the bearings is a pair of lip seals. In very early models these seem to have at least sometimes been O-rings in a carrier, but certainly by the late 1990's lip seals were always used. Although I think in all cases the top of the tube is above the waterline, particularly motoring at speed pushes the waterline up under the stern putting pressure on the seals.

Early versions had an aluminium tube, later (about 1998-9 onwards) an s/s/ tube. The tubes were made by Whitlock, then later by Lewmar, and in manufacturer had a glass sheath wrapped round them. Then the tube was assembled into the boat, the glass sheath being bonded to the hull. There seems to have been a period where the bond between the metal and the sheath would break down, possibly affecting tubes put together in Lewmar's early days on the job.

I think this is the problem you're referring to.

Long expensive fix is haul out, drop rudder, chop out bearing tube and glass in new. Possible shorter fix described to me by ex-Moody shipwright is to haul out, drop rudder, then Dremel out a groove in the hull around and against the bottom end of the tube, then force sealant into the groove and thence up around the tube. I cannot see how either of these fixes would be visible afterwards, although I guess you may be able to detect the shorter fix if the boat is on the hard.

All of us with these types of Moody have, it seems, to replace the lip seals from time to time. My 36 was leaking badly before I bought her this year, and on the (motoring) delivery trip home from the Solent to the Thames Estuary. I've bought new seals but still haven't fitted them because the leak has dwindled to almost nothing for some strange reason.

At least one member thinks that the problem with failing seals is commonly salt encrustation, because the calorifier is often under the aft bunk too, and it's thought the warm environment causes a degree of evaporation of the salt water. He reckons he cleans his seals, pops them back and they last a few more years.

As a general comment, the tech information on the website is a fantastic resource and the membership fee is peanuts by comparison.
Click to expand...
 
A1GSS said:
Hi Vic

When I was looking at Moodys, forumite Cantata very kindly provided the following to me, which seems highly relevant to your question. Hope if he reads this he's OK with me re-posting it:
Click to expand...
Hi Graham
Thanks for that , I had a long chat with princess yachts to day and what you just wrote is about right , the only bit that confusing me is mine is a late model 2001 so if what you wrote is correct then mine should have lips seals , for the life of me as I look down the tube I can't see any seals at all , just an white nylon, witch h I thing is the bearing , unless that a cap that comes out and the seals. Are underneath,
If that's the case the only way would be to drill two small hole and screw two screw into it to lift it out , but on the other hand if it's the bearing housing then by doing that , there a good chance I mess up the bearing.
So rather then take a chance I have fritted a 70x50 x 8seal in to day to see if that works , the other option is as I already said , build up the GRP another 10 mm ( that's about the limit I haven to play with ) and put another seal on top of the first one .
The leak isn't that bad to worry to much about at the moment , but my pet hate is water in the boat , plus it's not going to get any better .
 
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sailaboutvic said:
thanks for the advice although What I was hoping for is someone who actually replace the seal for first hand knowledge.
Click to expand...

Ive just replaced my rudder seals on a 36.
The white plastic washer is the seal retainer that clicks into place. Below that are two lip seals - I bought mine direct from Jeffa in Copenhagen as the useless folk who handle Lewmar retail sales quoted 6-8 weeks delivery and never bothered to reply to my next inquiry for parts..
MOA has a wealth of 'how to 'articles and this is one of them, it's a simple job, the hardest part for me was getting the quadrant apart but patience, good tools, a heat gun and some bad language got me there...

Under the quadrant clamps was a lovely salt crystal garden that was almost a shame to destroy..
 
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wully1 said:
Ive just replaced my rudder seals on a 36.
The white plastic washer is the seal retainer that clicks into place. Below that are two lip seals - I bought mine direct from Jeffa in Copenhagen as the useless folk who handle Lewmar retail sales quoted 6-8 weeks delivery and never bothered to reply to my next inquiry for parts..
MOA has a wealth of 'how to 'articles and this is one of them, it's a simple job, the hardest part for me was getting the quadrant apart but patience, good tools, a heat gun and some bad language got me there...

Under the quadrant clamps was a lovely salt crystal garden that was almost a shame to destroy..
Click to expand...

Hi
I coming to the conclusion something isn't how it should be , no lips seals when there should be ,
I wounder if at some time some one have modified it .
On top of the bush was a plastic washer
Has you can see from the photo I screw two screw into to try and remove it , with out any luck , although it will turn .

See photos
 
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What shows in your photo is the plastic/nylon retaining ring that would normally be holding in 2 lip seals. It is nothing to do with the bearings which are much further down the tube.
The ring can be a b*gger to remove, I struggled with mine on my 36 just the other day and in the end I simply destroyed it with an electric drill.
You say you can't get yours out but just the same you seem sure there are no lip seals beneath? If present, Lewmar lip seals are red, Jefa (not Jaffa!) seals are green.
Sizing the seals is simple. the smaller measurement is the diameter of the shaft, the larger measurement is the internal diameter of the tube.
If there are no lip seals but some kind of bush, I believe that earlier models had a kind of O-ring carrier, with O-rings round its outside and inside circumferences to provide the necessary seal instead of lipseals, so perhaps that's what you are talking about.
If you end up buying new lipseals, Lewmar were utterly hopeless for me, I gave up and got them direct from Jefa in Denmark - they were speedily responsive and very helpful indeed.
Tons of info about all this on the MOA site.
Like Wully1, I too struggled to get the quadrant off, had to resort to paying sailing tokens to the yard who somehow loosened the bolts. Whoever had been there before me had failed to use Duralac (or similar) when screwing the s/s bolts into the alloy quadrant.....
 
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For all thought interested in this Thread .
I have now got to the bottom of the problem .
Mine doesn't have any lips seals , what it does have is a type of plastic bush with two O rings on the inside and two on the outside .
No amount of pulling would shift it , ended up having to break part of it to. Get it to move .
Now waiting for a new one to be made .
 
It wasn't easy getting the plastic retainer out of my 36...I tried the 2 small self tappers screwed in to the retainer, the first ones pulled out. Second Attempt I used a coarser threaded pair of screws all the while concerned I'd damage what was under the retainer..
I eased, teased, pulled,turned and wiggled the retainer with the screws all the while scared I'd scratch the rudder stock. Eventually I used a seal puller that looks like something the dentist uses to hook in behind the retainer and distort it enough to snap out the outer groove and pull it out with the two screws.
The seals below were a similar but simpler job to remove.

In hindsight I should have made more ( gentle) use of the heat gun.

it is a far,far easier job than changing the rudder 'O' rings on an Eclipse..
 
In case other Moody have the same problem ,
This is what you will find instead of the lip seals.
Had to have it specially made ,
Seen you can't buy them any more .
 
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