Lakesailor
Well-Known Member
MOBO\'s on a roll
Over on MOBO forum they're nearly up to 140 posts on a thread.
Title? "Raggies".
Over on MOBO forum they're nearly up to 140 posts on a thread.
Title? "Raggies".
MOBO's on a roll
- Thread starter Lakesailor
- Start date
powerskipper
Well-Known Member
Re: MOBO\'s on a roll
guess!!!
what its a col regs one /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
guess!!!
what its a col regs one /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
bedouin
Well-Known Member
Re: MOBO\'s on a roll
And it's frighten how strenuously one of them is defending his erroneous view of the rules.
And it's frighten how strenuously one of them is defending his erroneous view of the rules.
Talbot
Well-Known Member
Re: MOBO\'s on a roll
[ QUOTE ]
it's frighten how strenuously one of them is defending his erroneous view of the rules
[/ QUOTE ]
It is also frightening how poorly some of the rules are being interpreted, and indeed the sheer lack of knowledge of some of them. The worst example is the bland statement that power gives way to sail.
IMHO the two worst things that are being ignored are:
the duty of the stand-on vessel to continue on course (i.e. no tacking in front of somebody else).
The responsibility of the overtaking vessel to remain clear of the vessel being overtaken - regardless of wether they are power of sail.
These two are fundamental, and if not understood, how will they ever understand the more esoteric rules about constrained by draught etc.
What really gets my goat is the us/them attitude of some, when the real problem is the pure ignorance and agorance of some people (mobo or raggie) who get the rest a bad name - it is easy to assign blame to a group of individuals by some abitary class difference rather than recognising the problem is common to all groups creeds and races.
[ QUOTE ]
it's frighten how strenuously one of them is defending his erroneous view of the rules
[/ QUOTE ]
It is also frightening how poorly some of the rules are being interpreted, and indeed the sheer lack of knowledge of some of them. The worst example is the bland statement that power gives way to sail.
IMHO the two worst things that are being ignored are:
the duty of the stand-on vessel to continue on course (i.e. no tacking in front of somebody else).
The responsibility of the overtaking vessel to remain clear of the vessel being overtaken - regardless of wether they are power of sail.
These two are fundamental, and if not understood, how will they ever understand the more esoteric rules about constrained by draught etc.
What really gets my goat is the us/them attitude of some, when the real problem is the pure ignorance and agorance of some people (mobo or raggie) who get the rest a bad name - it is easy to assign blame to a group of individuals by some abitary class difference rather than recognising the problem is common to all groups creeds and races.
ghost
Well-Known Member
Re: MOBO\'s on a roll
yeah, been watching this develop for a bit and trying not to get involved. What is evident is lack of general manners or gentlemanness/ commonsense afloat, '' mass of dinghies tacking up a channel - very selfish to hold races in a tight channel'' etc.
some of these guys are far too important to hold off for even a few seconds. they moan about being restricted but some only draw 2 foot, a teaching dinghy - say a wayfarer draws 2 1/2 foot with board down !!!
yeah, been watching this develop for a bit and trying not to get involved. What is evident is lack of general manners or gentlemanness/ commonsense afloat, '' mass of dinghies tacking up a channel - very selfish to hold races in a tight channel'' etc.
some of these guys are far too important to hold off for even a few seconds. they moan about being restricted but some only draw 2 foot, a teaching dinghy - say a wayfarer draws 2 1/2 foot with board down !!!
BrendanS
Well-Known Member
Re: MOBO\'s on a roll
I didn't read the thread in the same way at all, so went back to read it right the way through again. I can't see the example you quote of bland statement that power gives way to sail (other than one forumite quoting a dinghy sail instructor claiming this erroneously)
The understanding of the other two rules you mention is implicit - they are not the rules under discussion, but from other discussions most of the participants have shown they understand them, and most of the posts that touch on them also appear to show understanding of them.
If you read the early posts in the thread, one of the key elements was that there is only a small minority who have an 'us/them' attitude, and this prevails throughout most of the thread.
I didn't read the thread in the same way at all, so went back to read it right the way through again. I can't see the example you quote of bland statement that power gives way to sail (other than one forumite quoting a dinghy sail instructor claiming this erroneously)
The understanding of the other two rules you mention is implicit - they are not the rules under discussion, but from other discussions most of the participants have shown they understand them, and most of the posts that touch on them also appear to show understanding of them.
If you read the early posts in the thread, one of the key elements was that there is only a small minority who have an 'us/them' attitude, and this prevails throughout most of the thread.
DJE
Well-Known Member
Re: MOBO\'s on a roll
Point of information. Wayfarer with board down draws 4ft. I had one for 18 years and one broken centreboard to prove it.
Point of information. Wayfarer with board down draws 4ft. I had one for 18 years and one broken centreboard to prove it.
bedouin
Well-Known Member
Re: MOBO\'s on a roll
[ QUOTE ]
IMHO the two worst things that are being ignored are:
the duty of the stand-on vessel to continue on course (i.e. no tacking in front of somebody else).
The responsibility of the overtaking vessel to remain clear of the vessel being overtaken - regardless of wether they are power of sail.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree entirely about the overtaking.
The tacking issue is probably the most complex of the lot. In short the stand on vessel may tack if that is required (e.g. coming to the edge of a channel)
My pet peeve is people who think that 10 feet is "keeping well clear".
My 2nd peeve is anyone who uses the term "right of way" - it almost invariably indicates someone who does not understand the details of colregs (or still worse a racing sailor /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif )
[ QUOTE ]
IMHO the two worst things that are being ignored are:
the duty of the stand-on vessel to continue on course (i.e. no tacking in front of somebody else).
The responsibility of the overtaking vessel to remain clear of the vessel being overtaken - regardless of wether they are power of sail.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree entirely about the overtaking.
The tacking issue is probably the most complex of the lot. In short the stand on vessel may tack if that is required (e.g. coming to the edge of a channel)
My pet peeve is people who think that 10 feet is "keeping well clear".
My 2nd peeve is anyone who uses the term "right of way" - it almost invariably indicates someone who does not understand the details of colregs (or still worse a racing sailor /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif )
ghost
Well-Known Member
Re: MOBO\'s on a roll
there ya go, not many diseasels go that deep
there ya go, not many diseasels go that deep
Joe_Cole
Well-Known Member
Re: MOBO\'s on a roll
I've been trying to keep out too!
What has amused me is that one post was talking about how difficult it is to control some Mobo's at 4 or 5 knots. I can accept that, but I don't understand why that often means that they feel they have to go at 20+ knots.
I went through a racing fleet a couple of weeks ago. Going up the fairway, low water so not a lot of space to manoeuvre, and a continual flow of Mobo's racing passed, both sides, both directions. It was like Oxford Street in the Christmas rush. I hope the police launch puts in an appearance soon; they calm things down a bit!!
I've been trying to keep out too!
What has amused me is that one post was talking about how difficult it is to control some Mobo's at 4 or 5 knots. I can accept that, but I don't understand why that often means that they feel they have to go at 20+ knots.
I went through a racing fleet a couple of weeks ago. Going up the fairway, low water so not a lot of space to manoeuvre, and a continual flow of Mobo's racing passed, both sides, both directions. It was like Oxford Street in the Christmas rush. I hope the police launch puts in an appearance soon; they calm things down a bit!!
snowleopard
Well-Known Member
Re: MOBO\'s on a roll
I too was impressed with the lack of 'we hate raggies' and level of sensible argument on a topic that almost invariably gets aeriated. Interesting that the raggie side of the argument had at least as many misinterpretations of the col regs. The old assumption that stinkies buy a new sunseeker and blast off with no knowledge of the rules has taken a bit of a battering!
I must say that I've seen all too much of the 'power gives way to sail regardless' argument over the years.
Off now to start a new thread on that subject to save hijacking this one.
I too was impressed with the lack of 'we hate raggies' and level of sensible argument on a topic that almost invariably gets aeriated. Interesting that the raggie side of the argument had at least as many misinterpretations of the col regs. The old assumption that stinkies buy a new sunseeker and blast off with no knowledge of the rules has taken a bit of a battering!
I must say that I've seen all too much of the 'power gives way to sail regardless' argument over the years.
Off now to start a new thread on that subject to save hijacking this one.
fireball
Well-Known Member
Re: MOBO\'s on a roll
No - most small mobos don't go that deep - but you can always raise the plate in a dinghy and you don't have expensive engines that are sucking in water to the cooling system that would just love to do an impromtu dredge ...
No - most small mobos don't go that deep - but you can always raise the plate in a dinghy and you don't have expensive engines that are sucking in water to the cooling system that would just love to do an impromtu dredge ...
Talbot
Well-Known Member
Re: MOBO\'s on a roll
Agree with your reading of the tone of the thread, but was trying to make a more general point. The people who read the forum are (mainly) more knowledgeable than the average boaty person (of whatever persuasion) and furthermore, are more interested in improving their knowledge. However this is not a trait exhibited by some others (presumably the same who are the cause of all the ire generated on these threads). I was, therefore trying to make a more general point.
I have recently re-done the Yachtmaster shore (and ocean shore) curses, and the knowledge shown about these two fundamental rules is woeful.
Agree with your reading of the tone of the thread, but was trying to make a more general point. The people who read the forum are (mainly) more knowledgeable than the average boaty person (of whatever persuasion) and furthermore, are more interested in improving their knowledge. However this is not a trait exhibited by some others (presumably the same who are the cause of all the ire generated on these threads). I was, therefore trying to make a more general point.
I have recently re-done the Yachtmaster shore (and ocean shore) curses, and the knowledge shown about these two fundamental rules is woeful.
Talbot
Well-Known Member
Re: MOBO\'s on a roll
There is also the problem of those people who consider that all the racing rules are enshrined in the IRPCS and thus will be obeyed by non-racing craft as well /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
There is also the problem of those people who consider that all the racing rules are enshrined in the IRPCS and thus will be obeyed by non-racing craft as well /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
[2068]
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Re: MOBO\'s on a roll
It is more difficult controlling some Mobo's at under 5kts, but that's a poor excuse for speeding (a lot). Most of the mid-speed ones will trundle along quite happily at tickover speeds.
The worst thing for a Mobo to have to do is to stop in an uncontrolled fashion. With no keel and a crosswind, you can end up going anywhere, and you usually do. You can easily end up doing 1knot sideways, and run aground in a matter of seconds if you were already close to the side of a marked channel.
dv.
It is more difficult controlling some Mobo's at under 5kts, but that's a poor excuse for speeding (a lot). Most of the mid-speed ones will trundle along quite happily at tickover speeds.
The worst thing for a Mobo to have to do is to stop in an uncontrolled fashion. With no keel and a crosswind, you can end up going anywhere, and you usually do. You can easily end up doing 1knot sideways, and run aground in a matter of seconds if you were already close to the side of a marked channel.
dv.
BrendanS
Well-Known Member
Re: MOBO\'s on a roll
It was me that made that point (though actually, it was that some Mobo's are difficult to control unless making 4 or 5 knts, not difficult to control at that speed, but under)
Where did you see the mobo's doing this? It's the few high profile gits, who tar all mobos in many raggies eyes, in the same way that a few raggies spoil it for everyone else. If you get their names, just post them on the mobo forum in future, and if we know them (in our area, marina etc) we can have a word with them - hopefully they will not be forumites, as they should know better.
It was me that made that point (though actually, it was that some Mobo's are difficult to control unless making 4 or 5 knts, not difficult to control at that speed, but under)
Where did you see the mobo's doing this? It's the few high profile gits, who tar all mobos in many raggies eyes, in the same way that a few raggies spoil it for everyone else. If you get their names, just post them on the mobo forum in future, and if we know them (in our area, marina etc) we can have a word with them - hopefully they will not be forumites, as they should know better.
BrendanS
Well-Known Member
Re: MOBO\'s on a roll
One of the things that kept this thread un-aeriated, is that the general topic has been aired many times before, and those that had some minor issues have generally been educated into a wider understanding. Also, many of the mobo's on the thread have done or still do sail regularly.
I suspect many of the mobo forumites are probably amongst the best at giving a wide berth to boats sailing in light winds etc as they have seen many threads with comments to that effect over the years, and the cumulative learning process is probably quite good. Still doesn't stop many of them getting irate at dinghy races which cross channels, particulary at busy times, but actually most of them are quite tolerant (like all forums, people over emphasise their points at times)
One of the things that kept this thread un-aeriated, is that the general topic has been aired many times before, and those that had some minor issues have generally been educated into a wider understanding. Also, many of the mobo's on the thread have done or still do sail regularly.
I suspect many of the mobo forumites are probably amongst the best at giving a wide berth to boats sailing in light winds etc as they have seen many threads with comments to that effect over the years, and the cumulative learning process is probably quite good. Still doesn't stop many of them getting irate at dinghy races which cross channels, particulary at busy times, but actually most of them are quite tolerant (like all forums, people over emphasise their points at times)
l'escargot
Well-Known Member
Re: MOBO\'s on a roll
[ QUOTE ]
The tacking issue is probably the most complex of the lot. In short the stand on vessel may tack if that is required (e.g. coming to the edge of a channel)
[/ QUOTE ]
This is one of the areas that I think is not understood by some non-sailors and I am not relating it to dinghy racing fleets.
By tacking in these circumstances a sailing boat is maintaining a predictable course and to expect them to place themselves in danger (ie running aground) just so another boat doesn't have to deviate slightly from it's course or momentarily slow down is neither reasonable or required by the colregs. "I mowed him down from behind when he tacked out of danger" wouldn't be a sound defence.
There does seem to be a tendency among some less experienced helms these days to have their boat on rails and not even consider a slight deviation of a degree or two, out of consideration for others, even in open water.
[ QUOTE ]
The tacking issue is probably the most complex of the lot. In short the stand on vessel may tack if that is required (e.g. coming to the edge of a channel)
[/ QUOTE ]
This is one of the areas that I think is not understood by some non-sailors and I am not relating it to dinghy racing fleets.
By tacking in these circumstances a sailing boat is maintaining a predictable course and to expect them to place themselves in danger (ie running aground) just so another boat doesn't have to deviate slightly from it's course or momentarily slow down is neither reasonable or required by the colregs. "I mowed him down from behind when he tacked out of danger" wouldn't be a sound defence.
There does seem to be a tendency among some less experienced helms these days to have their boat on rails and not even consider a slight deviation of a degree or two, out of consideration for others, even in open water.
Joe_Cole
Well-Known Member
Re: MOBO\'s on a roll
Brendan,
It was on The Exe, but I wouldn't really want to start naming and shaming. There are times when it's easy to feel miffed because somebody has been a bit thoughtless, but life's too short to make an issue of every occasion; we've all got to share the water. On this occasion it was more the cumulative effect of boats being everywhere. Moderate wash from several separate boats builds up to quite a lot! I suppose I could moan that each boat should have taken account of the others but how far can you take these things?
It's best for me to treat it as a small exercise in boat handling and simply have a moan on this forum!
Apart from that, there wasn't time to take the names of the boats!
Brendan,
It was on The Exe, but I wouldn't really want to start naming and shaming. There are times when it's easy to feel miffed because somebody has been a bit thoughtless, but life's too short to make an issue of every occasion; we've all got to share the water. On this occasion it was more the cumulative effect of boats being everywhere. Moderate wash from several separate boats builds up to quite a lot! I suppose I could moan that each boat should have taken account of the others but how far can you take these things?
It's best for me to treat it as a small exercise in boat handling and simply have a moan on this forum!
Apart from that, there wasn't time to take the names of the boats!
landaftaf
Well-Known Member
Re: MOBO\'s on a roll
[ QUOTE ]
There does seem to be a tendency among some less experienced helms these days to have their boat on rails and not even consider a slight deviation of a degree or two, out of consideration for others, even in open water.
[/ QUOTE ]
if I may hijack your quote for an anecdote ....... okok big ship speak but relevant ......
so on the vhf ch16 ' ship on my port bow blah blah .......'
as there was only one other vessel and myself around I deduced from the range announced it must be me he was calling .......
after confirming my suspicions with this &*^% I was asked to alter course to avoid a close quarted situation ...... well as he was the give way vessel I enquired why he couldnt alter course as per colregs as he had plenty of searoom etc ......
he said he didnt want to call the captain as he wasnt allow to alter course or speed, in fact touch anything without calling him !!!!
'for those in peril on the sea'
[ QUOTE ]
There does seem to be a tendency among some less experienced helms these days to have their boat on rails and not even consider a slight deviation of a degree or two, out of consideration for others, even in open water.
[/ QUOTE ]
if I may hijack your quote for an anecdote ....... okok big ship speak but relevant ......
so on the vhf ch16 ' ship on my port bow blah blah .......'
as there was only one other vessel and myself around I deduced from the range announced it must be me he was calling .......
after confirming my suspicions with this &*^% I was asked to alter course to avoid a close quarted situation ...... well as he was the give way vessel I enquired why he couldnt alter course as per colregs as he had plenty of searoom etc ......
he said he didnt want to call the captain as he wasnt allow to alter course or speed, in fact touch anything without calling him !!!!
'for those in peril on the sea'
