MOB in a self-tacker with an inexperienced crew

BenMurphy

BenMurphy

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I have recently purchased a Hunter Horizon 272 which plan to sail from Cardiff. Plan is to take my (completely inexperienced) family out around the protected area of Cardiff Bay, bring them up to speed and get some confidence instilled.

One thing that I think is important is getting them familiar with a MOB drill and what to do if I fall overboard. My question is - what is the best approach for MOB recovery for an inexperienced crew? The added complication here is that the HH 272 has a self-tacking jib, so the classic "heave-to, drop the headsail and motor around" approach taught by the RYA isn't going to work easily.
 
No experience with a ST but could you adapt that approach? - Head to wind - Furl, motor round? Releasing all sheets might also be an option as the boat will just lie beam on to the wind but flogging sails could be unsettling to the crew, let alone the potential for injury / damage
 
BenMurphy said:
I have recently purchased a Hunter Horizon 272 which plan to sail from Cardiff. Plan is to take my (completely inexperienced) family out around the protected area of Cardiff Bay, bring them up to speed and get some confidence instilled.

One thing that I think is important is getting them familiar with a MOB drill and what to do if I fall overboard. My question is - what is the best approach for MOB recovery for an inexperienced crew? The added complication here is that the HH 272 has a self-tacking jib, so the classic "heave-to, drop the headsail and motor around" approach taught by the RYA isn't going to work easily.
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Let fly headsail & main sheets, start engine, get upwind of MoB & use astern/forward to allow boat to drift down to casualty, recover.
No sail handling, just sails which might flog a bit, simple.
 
Can the self tacker not be fitted with hauling lines like your main sheet. No need to use them all the time, they could be left slack until you want to heave to when you pull one side in tight?
 
scruff said:
Can the self tacker not be fitted with hauling lines like your main sheet. No need to use them all the time, they could be left slack until you want to heave to when you pull one side in tight?
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Crew is inexperienced & MoB might be OP, so needs to be very simple.
 
scotty123 said:
Let fly headsail & main sheets, start engine, get upwind of MoB & use astern/forward to allow boat to drift down to casualty, recover.
No sail handling, just sails which might flog a bit, simple.
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I'd be getting the main sheet as tight as I could, I REALLY, REALLY do not want the boom flying round with an inexperienced crew in a highly stressful situation.
 
Sandy said:
I'd be getting the main sheet as tight as I could, I REALLY, REALLY do not want the boom flying round with an inexperienced crew in a highly stressful situation.
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If sheeted in, it would be driving the boat.
Unless the crew are motoring around in circles, the boom would stay on the less side whilst boat is upwind of casualty.
 
Every boat is different and although it makes sense for the RYA to teach MOB recovery, each boat and skipper must surely develop a method which is best for their boat. The last time I did a recovery in deadly earnest, for a sun hat, I did it by gybing in about F4, but this won't always be appropriate, which is why a 'what if' mentality is needed.
 
It's not just getting back to the MOB - it's getting them on board once you've reached them. We have come to the conclusion that this would be nigh-on impossible for my (very petite) wife - I am pretty well double her weight. We could get me fastened on alongside, but after time in the water it is unlikely that I would have the strength to climb out of the water (it's hard enough getting out of a heated pool in soaked oilskins and clothing, as the Sea Survival Course will teach you!). Our boat has a high freeboard - it is pretty much impossible to board her from a dinghy except at the tiny sugar-scoop. The usual answer would be to use a spare halliard and a sheet winch, but of course this tends to assume that there is more than one able-bodied person aboard - one to control the boat and another to manage the recovery of the MOB. As we sail two-up, that isn't going to happen!

Given the above, we have an absolute rule that we clip on when not in the cockpit, and even in the cockpit in anything like lively conditions. My wife will hit the Big Red Button on the command mike for the VHF as soon as feasible, as even if she can get me alongside, we reckon it would be very doubtful if she could get me back aboard.

I'd suggest that prevention is better than cure in the OPs case. If someone DID go overboard, I'd be inclined to forget the sails, let the sheets fly (depower the main by hauling the topping lift up) and use the engine - sails can be replaced if they flog to bits, but people can't.
 
AntarcticPilot said:
It's not just getting back to the MOB - it's getting them on board once you've reached them. We have come to the conclusion that this would be nigh-on impossible for my (very petite) wife - I am pretty well double her weight. We could get me fastened on alongside, but after time in the water it is unlikely that I would have the strength to climb out of the water (it's hard enough getting out of a heated pool in soaked oilskins and clothing, as the Sea Survival Course will teach you!). Our boat has a high freeboard - it is pretty much impossible to board her from a dinghy except at the tiny sugar-scoop. The usual answer would be to use a spare halliard and a sheet winch, but of course this tends to assume that there is more than one able-bodied person aboard - one to control the boat and another to manage the recovery of the MOB. As we sail two-up, that isn't going to happen!

Given the above, we have an absolute rule that we clip on when not in the cockpit, and even in the cockpit in anything like lively conditions. My wife will hit the Big Red Button on the command mike for the VHF as soon as feasible, as even if she can get me alongside, we reckon it would be very doubtful if she could get me back aboard.

I'd suggest that prevention is better than cure in the OPs case. If someone DID go overboard, I'd be inclined to forget the sails, let the sheets fly (depower the main by hauling the topping lift up) and use the engine - sails can be replaced if they flog to bits, but people can't.
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I totally agree on the prevention side of things, and of course we will be taking all of those precautions. But I still can't rule out the scenario that I end up going overboard and my wife is left in charge of the boat with very little experience.

We do have hauling lines installed for the self tacker, but that's just another step in the process that they would have to remember.
 
I have had two occasions of in the water ...

As AntarcticPilot mentions .. Sea Survival Course ... his was in a swimming pool ... mine was out in Plymough Sound in blo**y March .. in a half inflated liferaft - that lecturer in charge of forgot to put pump in so we could inflate floor.

Other was slipping over climbing into dinghy in Bembridge from yacht .. while alongside .. in warmish spring.

BOTH led to severe cooling of legs and body making impossible to climb up even a few inches.

In the Raft - it took TWO people already in to drag one person in ..

Of my 25ft yacht even with steps and rudder to step onto ... it also took two strapping lads to get me on board.

With new people who had never sailed or I was unsure of ... I did the rescue a bottle drill. I suggested a way of doing it ... threw the bottle over - then let them try to retrieve. It not only showed them how - but was also good lesson for me each time as different people have different abilities.
It also highlighted the freeboard aspect of the boats and how much better it is to recover a person to a dinghy tender. You still have the problem of getting them on board yacht - but at least you have chance now to wrap them in warm gear ...

My Guard lines are made fast by lanyards at aft end .... grab knife - quick slash and lines are down. I used to have typical pelican hooks on another boat - cold hands - lines in tension .. hard to release ... soon changed to lanyards.

I haven't seen it mentioned for a long time - but there used to be advise to use a sail ... loose fitted main was the usual - so it could be draped in the water and then halyard used to 'roll' the person up and over onto the boat.
I saw it tried one time ... mmmmmmmm yes I can see it working but it also like all other ways has its limits.

Really I think OP has to think how his boat is suited to the task .. then get the crew to retrieve a bottle of something to see if they can ...

My Wife who never could cotton on to boating always insisted that I have another person on board with us / me who knew and could act in event of situation ... she was never happy my going alone or with newbies.
 
scotty123 said:
If sheeted in, it would be driving the boat.
Unless the crew are motoring around in circles, the boom would stay on the less side whilst boat is upwind of casualty.
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Do you really think that an inexperienced crew is going to perform a MOB under sail? Last time I was out with an RYA Cruising Instructor we discussed at length the current MOB thinking; you have an engine use it.

While a MOB drill undersail demonstrated good boat handling skills getting the MOB back onboard is your primary responsibility; I know my first 10 or 15 MOB drills each year are pretty messy. Personally, I would not want to have to sit with the MAIB and describe how the skipper drowned as we were faffing about with sails.
 
Dave ... ex crew from Admirals Cup Racing ... leaving Langstone Hbr under sail .... he used to wear a flat cap ..

I'm down below looking for the bread and cheese to make a snack ...

BHAM BHAM BHAM ....

Dave : Bloody Hell - Thought I'd lost it !!

His cap had blown off .. he'd gybed - picked up his cap ... gybed back on course ... carried on !! All with me falling about the cabin while he did it in literally few minutes only.

Just thought I'd mention !!
 
BenMurphy said:
And how about if I fall overboard the first time I take them out whilst teaching them? It's all well and good saying that, but everyone goes through an inexperienced period whilst they're learning!
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Honestly? On that first trip they'll probably never get close enough to help - and if they do - watch your head.

You need to wear a harness if you think there's the slightest chance of your being the only competent boat handler in your vicinity.
 
anoccasionalyachtsman said:
Honestly? On that first trip they'll probably never get close enough to help - and if they do - watch your head.

You need to wear a harness if you think there's the slightest chance of your being the only competent boat handler in your vicinity.
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Or do as my Wife asks me ... take another with you on that first daysail who knows something about what to do.

Because you know - worst teacher to a wife - is the hubby. But get a non family member to show ... and alls well. Bit like teaching wife to drive a car !!
 
The best advice is always "don't go overboard". All reasonable measures should be taken to ensure that no one goes in.
The second piece of advice, especially for UK waters sailors, is that MoB is always a MayDay. It should be a priority to call for help. Cold water shock is a real risk.

Sea schools tend to follow the procedure outlined in the DS Practical handbook. This generally assumes that the boat is sailing up wind such that the "crash tack" sends the boat nice and slowly back towards the MoB with headsail abacked. This isn't going to work with a ST headsail or if sailing downwind.

Clearly a bit of practice is called for, to see what works best for the OP and his family. I think that getting the headsail away and the boat down wind of the casualty (such that you can then approach into wind, in control) would be my starting point.

As already stated, the exercise is not complete with a pair of fenders and a rope safely back on board thanks to the boat hook at the leeward shroud. Getting a wet, possibly uncooperative, casualty back on board is far from straight forward. There should be clearly identified equipment on board to lift an MoB. Ideally, more than one way should be practiced.

Fortunately, I've never had to lift anyone. I've recovered fenders many times. I've once used a MoB dummy weighing about 40 kg. This is probably half a real person and I was amazed just how heavy/hard work it was to get it back on board.
 
Show them where the red DSC button is, how to start the engine, furl the genoa and drop the main, and wear your lifejackets.

Buy the boat an epirb/yourself a PLB, you're in the Bristol Channel, there's plenty of lifeboat stations around.

Edit, buy a handheld and clip/teather it to your lifejacket so you can call for help/direct them (ideally one with GPS/DSC).
 
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