mmmmm thoughts : Nasa Wireless wind masthead unit talking to B&G Wind Display ?

Refueler

Refueler

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As many may recall - I have a 'war' going on between my B&G Network Wind gear and me !

My thoughts look to replacing the gear .. but would be nice if I can keep the overall B&G display symmetry.

The NASA Wind puts out NMEA ... and the B&G says it accepts it .... so I wonder if the combo would work :

NASA masthead unit .... B&G Wind display and its secondary Tactic display ....
 
Correction .... just checked manual and it says NMEA transmit only from the display unit. All data from Masthead is via the B&G cable.

Drat !! Looks like I will have a NASA wind display amongst the B&G ...
 
PaulRainbow said:
Fit the NASA system, with the display out of sight, connect NMEA out to B&G NMEA in. Not tried it, but if the both speak 0183 it should work.
Click to expand...

According to B&G manual - the display only TX's out NMEA .. does not accept NMEA in ... the wind data comes in via the B&G cable ..

Not sure really what to do now ..
 

Attachments

First page of the manual you posted states:

It can operate as the main Network WIND unit either alone or as part of an Intregrated Network Instrument System taking inputs directly from a Wind Sensor which plugs into the socket at the rear of the display, or as a repeater of wind information received via the two Network cable tails.

This implies it will accept NMEA wind data via the network cables.
 
BarrytheViking said:
First page of the manual you posted states:

It can operate as the main Network WIND unit either alone or as part of an Intregrated Network Instrument System taking inputs directly from a Wind Sensor which plugs into the socket at the rear of the display, or as a repeater of wind information received via the two Network cable tails.

This implies it will accept NMEA wind data via the network cables.
Click to expand...

Page 3 ...

The unit is able to transmit NMEA 0183 v1.5 data via the network cables to other Network units and connect to an NMEA device e.g. a position fixer, with a special NMEA output cable.

Page 17 ...

NMEA OUTPUT SENTENCES

$IIHDM Heading
$IIVHW Speed and Heading
$IIDBT Depth
$IIVWR Apparent wind angle and speed
$IIMTW Sea temperature

Cruiser Forum has a long thread - I found just about an hour ago ... where guy was trying to connect B&G Wind display to output data to a MFD ... first thing was the NMEA data is fed via pins of the B&G network cable .. but only TX ... and the sentences for Wind are as you see above VWR ... old standard ... not M-- format ....
There are pictures of cable outs for the display unit - but NMEA is only shown for the OUTPUT tail - not for the INPUT.

Seems B&G may have understood and trying to prevent cheaper alternative feed IN ??? Or am I just being 'unfair' ??
 
PaulRainbow said:
Fit the NASA system, with the display out of sight, connect NMEA out to B&G NMEA in. Not tried it, but if the both speak 0183 it should work.
Click to expand...

Lots of people have tried to connect newer 0183 nmea wind instruments into the b and g network with not a lot of success!

The b and g mhw unit provides a pulse for wind speed reference and a phased voltage reference for direction.
This is then converted into an nmea sentence that is transferred between networked instruments only by the white wire in the B and G network daisy chain.

This sentence is not as commonly used on the nasa unit!

B and G don't provide any input socket for nmea on this unit. I think there is only an input socket on the Network Pilot and possibly the network nav repeater.

There is a green nmea output wire in the output tail of this unit which gave me some hope....

No chance..

You can't use this as an input on the input tail.

Read this

Old B&G Network Instrument Wiring - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

I am doing some work with a spare wind display and will report back if I can help you find a solution.

Final thought
Could the Nasa unit be connected to your Onwa Charplotter to give a wind display?
 
Hi TSB ... The Cruisers Forum - I was reading all way through that earlier .... as you say and I posted earlier - the B&G only outputs NMEA ... cannot accept input.

The Onwa is on the nav desk ... I have the Garmin UHD92 in the cockpit which could possibly display it - but the idea was to hopefully keep the displays in the hatch garage ...

ZnSiCuel.jpg


The far right is 360 deg Wind Dir + Speed ... then one to left of it is the Tactic display ...

If I install NASA - then I lose the Tactic as well ...
 
At present we have no idea what is wrong ... already had guy take down the MHU and clean / service ... but he is not a B&G guy - so could not check signals etc.
The display can be set to show direction - but when wind dir changes - it shows wrong ... sometimes veering instead of backing. The speed always shows 0 ...

I have thought that the cable may be the problem.

I need to open up the deckhead panel at base of mast and get tapping that wire ... but it needs 2 people as the display cannot be seen from there ... wonder if possible to run a couple of croc clip leads so I can watch display while tapping wires ???

If its the MHU ... even 2nd hand - that runs to about 800 quid !! I can get two Nasa complete setups and still have change for a couple of beers !!
 
Last edited:
Refueler said:
At present we have no idea what is wrong ... already had guy take down the MHU and clean / service ... but he is not a B&G guy - so could not check signals etc.
The display can be set to show direction - but when wind dir changes - it shows wrong ... sometimes veering instead of backing. The speed always shows 0 ...

I have thought that the cable may be the problem.

I need to open up the deckhead panel at base of mast and get tapping that wire ... but it needs 2 people as the display cannot be seen from there ... wonder if possible to run a couple of croc clip leads so I can watch display while tapping wires ???

If its the MHU ... even 2nd hand - that runs to about 800 quid !! I can get two Nasa complete setups and still have change for a couple of beers !!
Click to expand...

Yep
That is the crux of it.

Keep in mind that the costs escalate considerably once you ditch your B and G mhw unit.

In my case I was very happy with everything else in the network. I was happy enough with working depth, log and autopilot. The displays were readable and buttons worked well. I was not bothered about integration with chartplotter but the autopilot was a major benefit. It turned out to be one of the most effective I have ever used in quartering seas and a force of wind I would usually be happier at anchor.

I have been able to source working spares for virtually every instrument and new replacement senders are available for log and depth.

Your decision is how much to invest in repair the MHW unit.

I was fairly lucky in that mine was just a seized bearing but the cost of a replacement bearing assembly was eye watering....
It was still only an 1/8 th of your replacement choice!

What did this give in return in terms of benefit?

A visual indicator of wind speed and direction without neck pain and spectacles!
The ability to steer to wind in combination with the AP.
The ability to measure rather than guess vmg.
The ability to data log if required.
Matching instrument displays.

The problem is the alternative costs if you want to retain these benefits when you can't get your mhw unit working.
Your current thought is to just replace the wind display and mhw unit.

I can't see a way to fully integrate a new one without a work around of the non conforming B & G sentences used in the network nav instruments. On the other forums their appears to have been some success using various alternative HMI's & combination of nmea converters and standards.

In my case I can live without steering to wind and best vmg is not really that critical on my longer cruising passages.

The long term solution for my boat is to replace the entire instrumentation suite eventually including the Raymarine classic cp and radar.

The demands on the wallet for this are way more eye watering than a tiny replacement bearing unit!
 
Hi TSB ....

The cups spin freely ... the vane reacts to wind fully ... >>> the MHU does what its suppsoed to do ... but whether its sending all data ?? The Display reacts to every button press and shows exactly what manual says ... but not direction and speed correctly.

I cannot help but have in mind that the cable may be the culprit .. also that display of wind also integrates boat speed - so how much does that influence if that is not talking properly ? Supposedly the wind should show apparent and should only need boat speed to show true .. but who knows ??

The 'tapping' of wires ... I thought I could do that at the display - but of course it has the plugs with no 'wire tails' .... which explains why Test Sheet says to do it at the cable box .... mine being in the deckhead under mast.
 
Refueler said:
…I cannot help but have in mind that the cable may be the culprit ...
Click to expand...
That’s what my money would be on. My mate is a marine electrician and he reckons on boats over ten years old it’s nearly always corroded wires and terminals causing faults. How different us older-boat owner’s lives would be had the manufacturers used tinned copper wires back then.
 
TSB240 said:
No data is involved! Voltage tests as below!
https://forums.ybw.com/attachments/masthead-unit-tests-pdf.194362/

Should help tell you if cable is culprit.
Click to expand...


I have the Test sheet and know its 'varying voltage' from the MHU .... but the cable connectors of each display also carry the NMEA data .....

Earlier I mentioned that the test is to tap the wires together to create pulsed voltage ... problem for me is that its a long way from the access point of the wires to the display ... so need either two people or an extension lead with croc clips so I can see display.
 
Refueler said:
Hi TSB ....

The cups spin freely ... the vane reacts to wind fully ... >>> the MHU does what its suppsoed to do ... but whether its sending all data ?? The Display reacts to every button press and shows exactly what manual says ... but not direction and speed correctly.

I cannot help but have in mind that the cable may be the culprit .. also that display of wind also integrates boat speed - so how much does that influence if that is not talking properly ? Supposedly the wind should show apparent and should only need boat speed to show true .. but who knows ??

The 'tapping' of wires ... I thought I could do that at the display - but of course it has the plugs with no 'wire tails' .... which explains why Test Sheet says to do it at the cable box .... mine being in the deckhead under mast.
Click to expand...

Refueler
For what it’s worth I have the same B&G network system c2001 and as TSB240 I have found it sufficient for my purposes albeit it’s knocking on.
The wind was always problematic and would suddenly give spurious wind direction especially when the wind is directly from astern at very slow wind speeds. However, the year before last I replaced the standing rigging and disconnected the wiring in the deck head space beneath the mast. All colour coded and photographed in situ before doing so. Five months later mast re stepped and the B&G wiring block re connected exactly as it had been prior. All worked. And since I’ve had no issues with the MHU relaying accurate info to the display head unit.
I’m no marine electrician just opposed to forking out for their services, but maybe I inadvertently solved my issue when reconnecting the system.
 
shortjohnsilver said:
Refueler
For what it’s worth I have the same B&G network system c2001 and as TSB240 I have found it sufficient for my purposes albeit it’s knocking on.
The wind was always problematic and would suddenly give spurious wind direction especially when the wind is directly from astern at very slow wind speeds. However, the year before last I replaced the standing rigging and disconnected the wiring in the deck head space beneath the mast. All colour coded and photographed in situ before doing so. Five months later mast re stepped and the B&G wiring block re connected exactly as it had been prior. All worked. And since I’ve had no issues with the MHU relaying accurate info to the display head unit.
I’m no marine electrician just opposed to forking out for their services, but maybe I inadvertently solved my issue when reconnecting the system.
Click to expand...

Gives me hope !!

Cheers
 
I will give you a little more!

I went on my boat today and switched on my instruments for the first time in 8 months.
The wind instrument was giving strange direction and very low wind speed....
Checked voltage and display was reading the same as my battery monitor.13.1 volts.

Unplugged the feed from the mhw unit and it then read F0 with speed direction arrow straight up as if head to wind.

Contact cleaner spray in the socket on the cable and the pins of display restored the correct wind speed and direction.

I am sure you will find a bad connection somewhere.
 
When I bought the boat - seller reckoned he had not connected cables fully .... once I had boat back in home port - I spent an afternoon on it ... found he had left a cable unconnected ...

The wind had been dead as a dodo - direction and speed - until I connected that cable ... so your dodgy connection may be for me as well ...

I too have battery voltage and menu showing as it should ..
 
Follow up

I have one solution if you have no luck in sorting bad connections.

The problem is your working B AND G network wind needs an nmea 0183 $VWR input sentence into the network for it to continue to work without changing displays

Most new instruments or mhw units operating on 0183 or 2000 use $MWV sentences.

However the quark unit outputs both $ MWV and $VWR

Adobe Acrobat.

It isn't cheap but it is cheaper than replacing all your instrument and sensor suite.

You can input nmea directly from it into the B AND G network by cable or by cutting into daisy chain as described on cruiser forum or by using existing unused ports if you have any?

Set your display to repeater mode and it will operate with the input from the Quark mhw unit via the B and G network daisy chain.

As far as I can see the Quark is the only MHW unit that offers a $VWR nmea output.
 
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