Mixed feelings about survey done today

[Portofino]

Having read through this thread , I would be very weary .
Principly an old sterndrives with what seems little or no history -DIY without spares invoices -I would walk .
The high moisture content is not exactly what you need to hear particularly if the boat is cored .Coring is a cheap way to build a hull by using less resin /matting -it saves wieght so lower engine power is needed for a given speed .
Find a small old shaft drive boat -I,am not convinced older Sealines are the way to go .
At the Mech survey you really need to find out when the drive oil ( invoices please ) was changed .
Problem is this if it's been DiY ,d while the boats been stood for 9/12 then you will not know if it's milky .
Cos he,s disguised a seal leak -by refreshing the oil .
If its milky before you put it in the water -walk away .
If it milky after the sea trail -walk away .
At that age without invoices to say otherwise -milky oil may NOT be just a simple seal -more likely a drive rebuild £1000 +
Marine engines really should have annual oil change -to remove build up of acids which are corrosive .
This is fine in regularly used car -extended oil changes say 20K every 2y or what ever cos reg use keeps the oil moving .
In a boat it's stud with the engine off for weeks / months -the acid just sits in the bearing journals doing harm.
That's another tell tail -where are the invoices ?


iPad double post sorry folks :nonchalance:

 

[prv]

That's another tell tail -where are the invoices ?

For what it's worth, I don't keep any receipts and invoices for the extensive work I'm doing on our boat. Possibly I should, but the fact is that I don't. It doesn't necessarily mean that something dodgy's going on.

Pete

 

[aquapower]

Having read through this thread , I would be very weary .
Principly an old sterndrives with what seems little or no history -DIY without spares invoices -I would walk .
The high moisture content is not exactly what you need to hear particularly if the boat is cored .Coring is a cheap way to build a hull by using less resin /matting -it saves wieght so lower engine power is needed for a given speed .
Find a small old shaft drive boat -I,am not convinced older Sealines are the way to go .
At the Mech survey you really need to find out when the drive oil ( invoices please ) was changed .
Problem is this if it's been DiY ,d while the boats been stood for 9/12 then you will not know if it's milky .
Cos he,s disguised a seal leak -by refreshing the oil .
If its milky before you put it in the water -walk away .
If it milky after the sea trail -walk away .
At that age without invoices to say otherwise -milky oil may NOT be just a simple seal -more likely a drive rebuild £1000 +
Marine engines really should have annual oil change -to remove build up of acids which are corrosive .
This is fine in regularly used car -extended oil changes say 20K every 2y or what ever cos reg use keeps the oil moving .
In a boat it's stud with the engine off for weeks / months -the acid just sits in the bearing journals doing harm.
That's another tell tail -where are the invoices ?


iPad double post sorry folks :nonchalance:

The OP says its recently had new engine/drive, let the professionals do their job before throwing doubt to the buyer and trying to put him off, the boats nearly 30 years old, what do you expect?

 

[M1800R]

To do list

Take a deep breath. Life's too short to get worked up and lose sleep over this.

Await surveyor's written report. Having read it (several times) and digested it, then discuss over the phone with him points that are of concern to you.

Await engineer's report and do likewise.

Take note of the comments on here but do not allow them to make your final decision for you.

Having done the above decide in your own mind whether or not you are happy to proceed. If you have nagging doubts or concerns in any way then give this one a miss and start looking again. There is absolutely no point in buying a boat where you're going to be worrying over its structural integrity, mechanical fitness and whether or not you did the right thing. There's plenty more boats out there (even if you have to wait a while to find the right one) but you'll know when you do.

Boating is for pleasure (so I'm told ) and you're going to be parting with your hard earned cash. Be absolutely happy in your own mind you're comfortable with the boat you're buying before you go ahead with it.

Best of luck in your hunt whether it be this one or another.

Thanks a lot, you are absolutely right.

I will do as adviced and take it from there. I do have my heart settled on this one but my guts tells my otherwise and I hate the fact that 99% of the time my gut is wiser than my heart, therefore gotta follow it.

Thank you again.

 

[Sulley]

The surveyor is employed and works for you, ask him as many questions as you want!
The Bill of Sale used is the MCA one and is only completed and signed once all parties have agreed to complete and the funds are paid.
I assume you have paid a 10% deposit and signed an intention to purchase with subject to survey/engine test/sea trial etc??
Regarding receipts I either get the really good owner who has a lovely file with all the paperwork and manuals or a couple of bits of paper, it depends how organised people are.
HPI checks are not possible on boats, the only way is previous Bills of Sale that show the history and transfer.
When the Bill of sale is signed then is a paragraph is initialed to say it is being sold free of encumbrances.
Whilst the broker is being paid for by the seller most of their time goes to looking after the buyer and make sure he/she has a good experience. Especially with first time buyers we try and help every step of the way and answer questions. If you have questions ask the broker!

Regarding the numbers are you talking about the Hull Identification number as others have said right hand side of bathing platform or a number that starts with SSR?

I guess you are buying from Medway?

If you want to see what a blank Bill of Sale looks https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/bill-of-sale-msf-4705like

Hope that helps

 

[M1800R]

You're having a survey and engine inspection but the agreement hasn't been signed? That's unusual. Have you paid a deposit?

Nope, all I said is that I was having the meeting with the bank to arrange finance and once I got the ok I would proceed with all the bits including survey. The contract from my end has not been given to the broker yet.

I do have an email from the broker saying that they will consider I have accepted the boat after 21 days from the date on the agreement, unless not survey has taken place which in my opinion you should be able to have a survey done and other inspections before making an offer based on a professional survey and other mechanicals test, not before hand.

 

[M1800R]

Is your surveyor a related party to the broker? You should really be using an independent surveyor. He's supposed to be on 'your side', not related to the broker and therefore possibly giving you advice tainted by wanting to 'help the sale along'.

Precisely my point now. See, I was very naive to walk in after I have seen the advert and show interest. All of a sudden after I made an offer I get a call inviting me to view the boat. The reason I made the offer was to see if the owner would come down to my level as I don want to waist his time or mine.

Then I went to see the boat and the local surveyor have been pretty much booked as I was told I would be needing a survey. The guy(lovely guy) called me and said he has my details after talking to broker and the whole thing went from there, so now I have my reservations because when the readings came up, in my head 49% humidity in a medium that has been drying for 9 months is quite a lot, regardless of the fact I do not nothing about the way that GRP reacts, takes in, retain and dispose water from it. When I asked him if this reading was considered high he said not to worry about it, she was sound, but there is something I sensed at that point and that is my self preservation fuse telling me there is something not quite right. The surveyor perhaps depend on the broker to have boats on the pipe line and the broker will need boats to be sold in order to generate income/commision.
It is the natural way of looking after one and other but till what extent?
I don't feel is fair on the surveyor for me to be jumping to conclusions as I have not seen the report yet, all my feelings are based on one comment, a gut feeling and perhaps the relationship between broker and surveyor, that's all, but somehow I do not fell right, hence my head is on high alert at the moment.

 

[oldgit]

Boats of that vintage appear to be on the market from around 10k - 12 K .....with one real optimist out there asking 16K.
That probably means a nice one will be somewhere in the middle say 11K.Most of those asking prices will be sucking the market to see if anyone bites.Eventually a few realise they aint gonna get it. and the prices soften.
So probably an offer on nice one with loads of paperwork and history going back forever would be ...lets say start at 75% of asking.
Something not quite so nice and doubtful service history,you need to get the boat at less than the cost to fix it and you are still taking a chance...50% of asking ?
You would be amazed at some of the prices some boaters paid for their boats,most recently chap I know got a decent Fairline Sedan 36 for just over £40K,have look at the brokers asking prices on those boats.
A Broom Crown 37 on our mooring struggled to get 46K.
It war out there

 

[stuartwineberg]

All of the above posts seem helpful to me. I have a preference for the simplicity of shaft drive for older boats. My only additional input is to be wary of getting so far into the purchasing/surveying/worrying process that you somehow feel that there is a momentum that forces you to purchase. The reason for all this soul searching is to allow you to make a rational go/no go decision and the more blood sweat and tears you invest the easier it is just to go ahead and say yes. Another error (and I have definitely made this one) is to decide not to buy for good reasons and then because you can't face the hassle of going through the whole process again, purchase a similar boat very quickly and without due diligence. There are a lot of boats out there and it is better to try and perceive the purchasing and selection process as part of the fun of boating - a chance to wander round lots of boats, meet lots of people and learn about the type of vessels you are interested in.

I reckon that's all the amateur psychology I can manage for today - good luck with it all

 

[Portofino]

Thanks a lot, you are absolutely right.

I will do as adviced and take it from there. I do have my heart settled on this one but my guts tells my otherwise and I hate the fact that 99% of the time my gut is wiser than my heart, therefore gotta follow it.

Thank you again.

Read this and er on the side of " rule with your head "
Thing about tinternet the truth is out there for all to see -
http://www.yachtsurvey.com/moisture_meters.htm

 

[ari]

Nope, all I said is that I was having the meeting with the bank to arrange finance and once I got the ok I would proceed with all the bits including survey. The contract from my end has not been given to the broker yet.

I'm sorry, I'm a little confused. So if you haven't had a survey, where have the moisture readings etc come from? It sounded like you'd had a survey.

 

[ICTM]

"The reason I made the offer was to see if the owner would come down to my level as I don want to waist his time or mine"

Welcome to the forum. You say that you made an offer, did you make this subject to survey and sea trial ?

 

[aquapower]

Boats of that vintage appear to be on the market from around 10k - 12 K .....with one real optimist out there asking 16K.
That probably means a nice one will be somewhere in the middle say 11K.Most of those asking prices will be sucking the market to see if anyone bites.Eventually a few realise they aint gonna get it. and the prices soften.
So probably an offer on nice one with loads of paperwork and history going back forever would be ...lets say start at 75% of asking.
Something not quite so nice and doubtful service history,you need to get the boat at less than the cost to fix it and you are still taking a chance...50% of asking ?
You would be amazed at some of the prices some boaters paid for their boats,most recently chap I know got a decent Fairline Sedan 36 for just over £40K,have look at the brokers asking prices on those boats.
A Broom Crown 37 on our mooring struggled to get 46K.
It war out there

I think making those kind if offers on a boat of that value will do nothing other than p155 off all involved with the sale be sensible with any offer made, I would say this has to be worth a premium over a boat of same as with original engine as someone else has already replaced the most expensive bit so if looked after will last for many years more.

 

[Wetsoundsnz]

Hey guys,

Great question in the waxing & polishing.

Over the years I have learnt a lot about waxing and polishing paint and gel coat.

Firstly, depending on the weather for drying times, clean your whole boat with a heavy duty wax degreaser detergent.
This helps remove a lot of debry off the surfaces that you will spend far to much time trying to get off while polishing.
If your paint work looks good after its clean, just wax it.
If not give it a polish/buff working evenly and small areas at a time, they start to blend together.
I have found buying a marine wax from a marine shop in the NZD $100 mark has been enough wax for 3-4seasons, just keep it in a dry/cool/dark place.
This waxing is the vital to keep your boat shiny and clean year round, I could multiple waxs in a season and it keeps it looking great during the winter.
Wax on wax off with small areas and small amounts of wax, you want it to haze off after 2-3minutes of applying.
Use plenty of microfibre cloths and you can't go wrong.

 

[M1800R]

I'm sorry, I'm a little confused. So if you haven't had a survey, where have the moisture readings etc come from? It sounded like you'd had a survey.

Hi, I think you miss understood me.

We did the survey yesterday and as I was present I noticed the readings and asked the question regarding the levels. I have received the agreement from the broker to purchase the boat.
Kind regards

 

[Flynnbarr]

For what it's worth, I don't keep any receipts and invoices for the extensive work I'm doing on our boat. Possibly I should, but the fact is that I don't. It doesn't necessarily mean that something dodgy's going on.

Pete

Some of the best kept mint boats I know are owned by people who in their occupations acquire from customers coin of the realm so spread the love around to other contractors so no paper trail,not me I hasten to add
Also a lot of people don't want reminding of how much it is all costing!

 

[M1800R]

"The reason I made the offer was to see if the owner would come down to my level as I don want to waist his time or mine"

Welcome to the forum. You say that you made an offer, did you make this subject to survey and sea trial ?

Hi and thank you for your welcoming.
I did make an offer using the web site subject to sea trial and survey ( the web site does not give you more options)
When I met the broker I also specified that I would like a mechanical engineer to have a look at the engine for an estimate as I know nothing about boats and don't know anybody who does either. This was not written on the purchase agreement but I did mention it. In any case, the broker is aware I am having the engineer to have a superficial look and tell us if they think something needs replacing and how much we are looking at.
Kind regards

 

[rafiki_]

This is quite normal in the purchasing process, you make an offer subject to survey. If the survey picks up anything substantial, then the seller has the option of reducing the price accordingly, or fixing the problem. You are not buying a new boat, so do not expect it to be in new condition. There will be things needing fixing, but if anything major crops up, then get the seller to fix, or walk away.

 

[Wetsoundsnz]

Yeah,

This is why your having a survey, take the facts given and make a round decision.
You wouldn't believe the stories I have heard where people have not had a survey at all.

Good luck on making the right choice.

 

[M1800R]

Thank you guys, as you can see I have received a lot of useful information and advice from many members, this is fantastic, especially as I am a novice. I do hope the survey does not reveal anything wrong with the boat and the engineer comes up with a decent quote and nothing more than oil, filters, anods and any other small and routine maintenance that needs doing. That I would gladly pay for as I will be making the boat mine. After that I don't expect the sea trial to be a problem if the engineer did not find any faults whatsoever. I know she is a bit old and tired in places, I am really looking forward to get my hands on her and do some serious cleaning, polishing and amending the small DIY bits I would like to polish up to make her look smarter.
Kind regards.