jimi
Well-Known Member
In that case don't do it, but don't presume all other people are the same as you.
Missing yachtswoman in South west.
- Thread starter FistralG
- Start date
In that case don't do it, but don't presume all other people are the same as you.
Searush
Well-Known Member
Will posters kindly pause for a cup of tea & a biscuit please? I am beginning to observe the symptoms of low bloodsugar in many of the recent posts.
After a short rest & a bit of sustenance I am sure tempers will settle & the sarcastic comments will cease.
BTW, regular finger snacks & hot drinks are vital for long duration short-handed passages. Without them, one will quickly become more tired & anxious.
After a short rest & a bit of sustenance I am sure tempers will settle & the sarcastic comments will cease.
BTW, regular finger snacks & hot drinks are vital for long duration short-handed passages. Without them, one will quickly become more tired & anxious.
Kukri
Well-Known Member
If the wreckage found is from the boat in question, and was found near Sennen (i.e. not far from Mousehole) but without a body nearby, I am cautiously inclined to think that the lady owner may perhaps have slipped OB.
If she didn't have her oilies with her, the chances are that she didn't have a a harness, and may not have had the best footwear - but we'll know when the body is found.
My sympathy to her husband and children.
If she didn't have her oilies with her, the chances are that she didn't have a a harness, and may not have had the best footwear - but we'll know when the body is found.
My sympathy to her husband and children.
chris46
Well-Known Member
you just wouldnt let it lie
lustyd
Well-Known Member
Aaaaaanyway.
Sennen from Mousehole is only about 12 miles, so even with a very slow 3kt we're looking at 4 hours.
I hate to speculate but I'd imagine everyone here is fine with 4 hours on watch and probably all fine with 4 hours helming? I know my limits are pretty low but I've done 4 hours before now in the dark on my own and I was OK.
Sennen from Mousehole is only about 12 miles, so even with a very slow 3kt we're looking at 4 hours.
I hate to speculate but I'd imagine everyone here is fine with 4 hours on watch and probably all fine with 4 hours helming? I know my limits are pretty low but I've done 4 hours before now in the dark on my own and I was OK.
John.edwards
Well-Known Member
while I agree that different individuals respond to sleep deprivation differently, and clearly some people can work/sail around the clock without evident signs of fatigue (at least for the short term) others will suffer terrible fatigue, it is clear from a risk managemnt point of view that sleep/rest planning is important.
see http://www.amsa.gov.au/aphomsa/Meeting 7/Agenda Item 5 Safety of People/Fatigue Managment(NZ).pdf
This document relates to commercial situations with opportunities for adequate watch systems to be implemented so does NOT relate to single handed situations. often the drive to 'get somewhere' and the concentration required to helm effectively can have an effect of improving alertness and attention.
clearly too, even if one is fatigue tolerant, there are limits to how far the envelope can be pushed.
maybe try methamphetamine
see http://www.amsa.gov.au/aphomsa/Meeting 7/Agenda Item 5 Safety of People/Fatigue Managment(NZ).pdf
This document relates to commercial situations with opportunities for adequate watch systems to be implemented so does NOT relate to single handed situations. often the drive to 'get somewhere' and the concentration required to helm effectively can have an effect of improving alertness and attention.
clearly too, even if one is fatigue tolerant, there are limits to how far the envelope can be pushed.
maybe try methamphetamine
lw395
Well-Known Member
Equally, I have had minor gear failure and poor preparation turn things into a bit of a shambles within 2 hours of leaving the mooring.
I've certainly set off on less ambitious passages and turned back.
Scillypete
Well-Known Member
I don't know if it has been mentioned already, might have missed a page or two, but looking back at the timings they would only have fitted if taking the inshore passage around lands end. Not something I would have done in the dark in a northerly, we had a steady four here overnight and it was still northerly 5 on Sunday afternoon. If she went offshore to round Lands end then she would have been against the tide and beating into a headwind for a good few hours. There was plenty of swell over the weekend which would make for a very unpleasant passage.
Very sad outcome for a new boatowner.
Very sad outcome for a new boatowner.
Robert Wilson
Well-Known Member
Will posters kindly pause for a cup of tea & a biscuit please? I am beginning to observe the symptoms of low bloodsugar in many of the recent posts.
After a short rest & a bit of sustenance I am sure tempers will settle & the sarcastic comments will cease.
BTW, regular finger snacks & hot drinks are vital for long duration short-handed passages. Without them, one will quickly become more tired & anxious.
After yesterday's disagreement with you, Searush, I now find myself in complete agreement with you, particularly the "bold" sentence.
All the rest of you, please let's not get into "I can - you can't - I never said that, I could do that, no-one should do that" spat.
We can only measure this tragedy by sensible examination of the facts - of which there are precious few.
For instance - "Is the wreckage of her boat"? "Could she be somewhere northwards in the Irish Sea without mobile coverage and a broken VHF"?
I suggest that this MASSIVE post/thread is losing it's focus. Surely we can only respond to information from the authorities (CG, RNLI, SAR etc) who so far are unable to find evidence of her whereabouts.
Could she be ashore somewhere, injured or otherwise?
Searush
Well-Known Member
Chris, the difference is that these people are speaking for a position of authority, they have been there & done that. They are not simply spouting an opinion without the knowledge to support it. There are times when we need to listen to the voice of experience & say. "OK, I didn't realise that"
Not everyone will be happy with a 20 hour solo passage & many will struggle with 20 hours on the helm, but one can generally heave to or drop sails & drift for some time in some places in perfect safety.
TBH, I probaly would not attempt a solo passage of that length. The last time it was a probability, I asked a guy I met on the quayside to accompany me. He was a novice, but an extra hand is still an extra hand & he was glad of the experience, plus an overnight stay & free flight home.
chris46
Well-Known Member
excuse me ,but i was not "spouting" an opinion as you put it,however you are correct in that listening to people who have experience and the authority to pass on knowledge and experience should be listened to,absolutely.
my apologies if my original post seemed dismissive.
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Searush
Well-Known Member
Nor did I even suggest that you were, I simply pointed out that THEY were not.
Perhaps if you were a little less tetchy, you might have read what I said rather than what you thought I said. Have a cup of tea & a biscuit, I just have.
Kukri
Well-Known Member
thninking back I have known 10 people killed in the course of messing about in boats:
3 - boat went missing on long passage (two incidents)
2 - gas explosion (0ne explosion, two people)
2 - fire on board at night in winter (one incident)
3 - separate incidents - drowned between dinghy and yacht in my local river. In one case over a distance of twenty yards or so - but he had spent the evening in the pub.
3 - boat went missing on long passage (two incidents)
2 - gas explosion (0ne explosion, two people)
2 - fire on board at night in winter (one incident)
3 - separate incidents - drowned between dinghy and yacht in my local river. In one case over a distance of twenty yards or so - but he had spent the evening in the pub.
Sailfree
Well-Known Member
At present it appears a sad case of an enthusiastic sailor trying to do something many of us would (and some would not!) try.
WRT the thread drift I sailed back from Spain singlehanded with some longish hops but I had a 38'AWB (a boat I was used to) , good weather forecasts and good autohelm and radar. I am fortunate that I can work long hours (in fact I was doing my accounts until 04.30 this morning!). I bow to others more experienced with the 31'Moody comments on theirsailing ability.
I would not be foolish enough to offer an opinion on whether this sailors judgement was sensible nor do I know how comprehensive her safety equipment was. No doubt the MAIB will investigate this and there may be some lessons to be learnt.
What I do welcome is that this lady had the right to decide to set sail and we cannot make rules to keep everyone safe all the time.
When we got our first "big" boat a 36' Dufour a close friend meaning well suggested that we leave doing our first cross channel until the next year when we had more experience. Being keen we did not wait and felt great making to us a great step!! If something had gone wrong probably many would have suggested that a bit more caution and experience would have been good.
I have learnt lots on this Forum but also take the time to read the excellent MAIB reports. Some make sobering reading. I always feel sad remembering the Ouzo incident. I am fortunate and not sailing on a shoe string and have personal epirb, waterproof handheld VHF, flares, 2 liferafts etc but I would never want to deny anyone the right to set sail with whatever boat and equipment they wanted to go with.
Whether she was brave and enthusiastic or silly and unfortunate I am reminded of the quotation "I find people who sit and wait for old age grow older faster".
WRT the thread drift I sailed back from Spain singlehanded with some longish hops but I had a 38'AWB (a boat I was used to) , good weather forecasts and good autohelm and radar. I am fortunate that I can work long hours (in fact I was doing my accounts until 04.30 this morning!). I bow to others more experienced with the 31'Moody comments on theirsailing ability.
I would not be foolish enough to offer an opinion on whether this sailors judgement was sensible nor do I know how comprehensive her safety equipment was. No doubt the MAIB will investigate this and there may be some lessons to be learnt.
What I do welcome is that this lady had the right to decide to set sail and we cannot make rules to keep everyone safe all the time.
When we got our first "big" boat a 36' Dufour a close friend meaning well suggested that we leave doing our first cross channel until the next year when we had more experience. Being keen we did not wait and felt great making to us a great step!! If something had gone wrong probably many would have suggested that a bit more caution and experience would have been good.
I have learnt lots on this Forum but also take the time to read the excellent MAIB reports. Some make sobering reading. I always feel sad remembering the Ouzo incident. I am fortunate and not sailing on a shoe string and have personal epirb, waterproof handheld VHF, flares, 2 liferafts etc but I would never want to deny anyone the right to set sail with whatever boat and equipment they wanted to go with.
Whether she was brave and enthusiastic or silly and unfortunate I am reminded of the quotation "I find people who sit and wait for old age grow older faster".
teddington_lock
Well-Known Member
That is an incredibly high mortality rate amongst your friends !
I'm glad you don't know me !
maby
Well-Known Member
Like most things in life, we need balance. I'm aiming to still be sailing at 75 - drowning at 65 is not the best way to achieve that.
Kukri
Well-Known Member
It's over forty years, and I do notice that the most dangerous thing seems to be to get into a dinghy after a night in the pub... a point made by Des Sleightholme in YM thirty or more years ago. Indeed I routinely say to the crew, climbing into the dinghy after a visit to the pub, "We are about to undertake the most dangerous thing in sailing!"
Really I was just making the point that the sport is not without its dangers.
As noted earlier, a slip overboard seems a possibility.
Really I was just making the point that the sport is not without its dangers.
As noted earlier, a slip overboard seems a possibility.
Searush
Well-Known Member
It might only mean that he has known a lot more sailing people than you. He has not said that they were all friends, or even acquaintances.
Alan ashore
Well-Known Member
Reflecting on Minn's statistics, my corresponding numbers would be:
1 Fell into marina at night, either from the boat or the dock
1 Overboard from fully crewed boat in heavy weather
1 Lost when keel fell off fully crewed boat in moderate weather
1 Electrocuted by overhead cable while pushing rigged sailing dinghy on trailer
2 Killed in car accidents driving to or from the boat
A.
1 Fell into marina at night, either from the boat or the dock
1 Overboard from fully crewed boat in heavy weather
1 Lost when keel fell off fully crewed boat in moderate weather
1 Electrocuted by overhead cable while pushing rigged sailing dinghy on trailer
2 Killed in car accidents driving to or from the boat
A.
franksingleton
Well-Known Member
The chief sailing instructor at Cowes used to say that sailing is a high risk activity. Risk should be minimised but will never be eliminated; that is why we enjoy sailing; it is that little frisson of risk that keeps you on your toes and makes the adrenalin run. We need that.
As regards age, I had a query from someone with a Centaur wanting weather advice for a Channel crossing. I mentioned the Internet; he said that he did not want to use such technology. He said he was 88!
I have a few years to go, but less than 10. We all live in hope.
As regards age, I had a query from someone with a Centaur wanting weather advice for a Channel crossing. I mentioned the Internet; he said that he did not want to use such technology. He said he was 88!
I have a few years to go, but less than 10. We all live in hope.