Davy_S
Well-known member
What has happened to the Messalongi thread? It was getting interesting, has it been pulled?
Missing Messalongi?
- Thread starter Davy_S
- Start date
danfoley
New member
Hi, it was pulled yesterday after a complaint. I hadn't had a chance to review it until now but the reason for the complaint was that many personal details (names, contact details, insurance numbers) were published. I may be able to put it back later but it will take some heavy editing.
Davy_S
Well-known member
Thanks for explaining Dan, I only asked because the Marina company had replied, so it possibly may have given a more balanced opinion for all to see.
I have no personal interest or gain, just curious.
I have no personal interest or gain, just curious.
rivonia
Active member
I agree, my response was that it was very good to have a balanced view when the marina replied. So if it can be returned it would be a very interesting topic.
Peter
Caladh
Well-known member
I'd also be interested to see the marina's reply, even if it has been edited.
Oliveoyl
New member
C'mon Dan, put it back! we are /were considering Messy in 2012, so all info good/bad is useful
Sybaris
Member
I have seen individual messages being pulled before, but why the whole tread?
Did anyone have time to read the reply and can post a brief "guideline friendly" summary?
Did anyone have time to read the reply and can post a brief "guideline friendly" summary?
Davy_S
Well-known member
From what I remember, the management had settled up fully with 2 or 3 damaged yachts. The other yacht had been inspected and offered 18,500 euro. The owner of the yacht wanted 3,000 more, the marina said that he was trying to claim for more than the damage, so the case goes on.
I can see why Dan pulled the thread because names of the people concerned plus telephone numbers etc were there for all to see.
The jist of the reply from the marina was that they had bent over backwards to help the owners of damaged yachts, and they are fully insured. If you remember someone earlier in the thread said the marina had no insurance. They said this is simply not true.
When arguments and hearsay happen, it is sometimes better when a company replies and are allowed to put their side of the argument forward.
There was simply too much personal detail given, I dont envy Dan if he has to edit it all!
charles_reed
Active member
having been there (at Messolonghi) my sympathy is more with the marina management than many others.
To my knowledge they settled without argument one claim (unrelated to the collapse) and apart from the regrettable grant of monopoly status to Paleros, have tried very hard to deal equitably with owners who had a complaint.
A full confidential report will be posted, in due course, on the CA site - if you're not a CA member you'll have to remain in ignorance - but being a restricted site one can afford to be more frank than on a public site.
To my knowledge they settled without argument one claim (unrelated to the collapse) and apart from the regrettable grant of monopoly status to Paleros, have tried very hard to deal equitably with owners who had a complaint.
A full confidential report will be posted, in due course, on the CA site - if you're not a CA member you'll have to remain in ignorance - but being a restricted site one can afford to be more frank than on a public site.
Capella1
New member
Hallo,
Obviously we still need to comment the situation in public.
On Sept. 06, 2010 the accident happened.
On Sept. 08, 2010 the surveyor inspected our damages.
His preliminary report is dated Sept. 10, 2010.
According to this report PYS was invited to submit a price offer on the repairs to be done. In addition PYS wanted to coordinate a meeting with a mast specialist, because – according to PYS’s own words: “You cannot see from the outside, if there is something broken on the inside”
On Sept. 20, 2010 we received the quotation from MMYS (Messolonghi Marina Yacht Service – belonging to the same owner as PYS). This quotation was incomplete. We complained.
On Sept. 26, 2010 we received the quotation from LAVRIO-YACHTS. This quotation included all necessary repairs in accordance with the surveyor’s report.
On Sept. 28, 2010 we we were still waiting for the agreed meeting with a mast specialist. Upon reminding PYS the same guy first needing one, now said: “This meeting is not necessary.”
Taking the offer of LAVRIO YACHTS as a template (we have been so kind to provide a copy), MMYS revised their quotation, on Oct. 01, 2010 we received a new quotation, this time printed on PYS paper. Still this quotation was no complete.
On Oct. 20, 2010 we received a report from the SURVEYOR after he had a close look at all price offers. According to him the two offers from LAVRIO-YACHTS and PYS are pricewise identical, even though there is a difference of approx. € 3.000,--. Reason: for the PYS offer additional cost are to be expected since the offer does not include all repairs necessary.
And finally, based on this statement (which we hold in writing) OUR INSURANCE decided to have the order placed with LAVRIO-YACHTS !!!
So – all in all – we NEVER wanted anything more than having those damages repaired caused by the accident. And let us say again: until today, we have not received any information, name, address or file number of the Messolonghi Marina insurers.
However, in case the “post from Messolonghi Marina” – which we had deleted due to the marina management publishing our family name, our phone number, our e-mail address and even our insurance number – we are happy to be in the position to prove the truth, since we fortunately kept copies of the entire correspondence from the very beginning to the very end.
Interesting enough, Messolonghi Marina only published their own mails, not those we sent them, asking the same questions again and again without receiving their answer. Besides this, the Messolonghi Marina is manipulating the timeline “who said – what - when”. They are putting the pieces together the way they need them to paint their own false picture, which they are now trying to tell the public.
In general, treating this whole subject "Accident in Messolonghi Marina" in public on the internet, those of you speaking German can feel free to visit our page www.segelyacht-capella.de. As you can read in the chapter "Sailingseason 2010": after the accident happenend we were the last to blame the Messolonghi Marina in public. On the contrary: we called everyone not to vendetta the marina! We believed in findig a acceptable solution, we felt being understood and taken care of.
We have not made public details on what happend during the next 8 weeks time! You will find a chapter under password protection for our family and friends only - but if Messolonghi Marina would like us to, we could take away this password easily.
Nevertheless, we don’t mind having the accident being talked about in all details every day – since every single input on this subject will push up the topic within Google.
But let us say, we really feel sorry for the entire thread "Messolonghi info please" being deleted and we would like to apologize for that, especially because many of you were telling their own negative experience with Messolonghi Marina - summarizing in a correct picture.
Regards
Gaby+Willi
PS:
By the way, it was not in our reponsibility that this thread was started again, but as we said before, we don't fear telling the truth.
charles_reed
Active member
I'd support Cappellas' refusal to have Paleros Yacht Services do any work on their boat, as someone put it to me "I wouldn't let them mend my inflatable.."
Subsequent work that they've done, that I've seen has given me no reason to change that opinion.
However, the only party on which Capella have a claim are the boat which hit them. This basic misunderstanding seems to have produced a lot of heat and little light.
The granting of a monopoly right to Paleros Yacht Services was, IMHO, a regressive act by Messolonghi Marina.
I suspect that they were over a barrel - with >600 boats on the standing they desperately needed an injection of expertise in boat movement.
A public site such as this is not one on which one can be utterly frank and the subjective tone of the threads has militated against sensible, objective comment.
As usual the negative opinions have made the most noise...
Subsequent work that they've done, that I've seen has given me no reason to change that opinion.
However, the only party on which Capella have a claim are the boat which hit them. This basic misunderstanding seems to have produced a lot of heat and little light.
The granting of a monopoly right to Paleros Yacht Services was, IMHO, a regressive act by Messolonghi Marina.
I suspect that they were over a barrel - with >600 boats on the standing they desperately needed an injection of expertise in boat movement.
A public site such as this is not one on which one can be utterly frank and the subjective tone of the threads has militated against sensible, objective comment.
As usual the negative opinions have made the most noise...
rivonia
Active member
Interesting. We have also had lots of comments in a negative vein with regard to PALEROS,
the point here is to keep an open mind. We had work done by Paleros and it was excellent and a reasonable price. Also delivered batteries to us, went up the mast to replace anchor light. All within our very tight budget.
Peter
Eurydice
New member
Have had dealings with Paleros in the past and yes they did a good job but boy did we pay high for it!!
Under the circumstances of an insurance claim maybe this won't be an issue?
Under the circumstances of an insurance claim maybe this won't be an issue?
Messolonghi Marina
New member
messolonghi marina
Dear readers of this forum.
First I want to appologize that I put personal details from the SY Capella owners on the net. Below the edited thread.
After having read all of this we think it is the time to give a clear view regarding the damage and the follow up on the SY Capella from the family L.
On Monday, 06-10-2010 a boat fell over in the marina.
This boat took in its fall three other boats, among others the SY Capella
Unlike the family L. writes, their boat did not fall due to incorrect propping of their boat, but because another boat took it in its fall.
At the time of the accident I was in Holland. After the accident I called Robert Meyer of Paleros Yacht Service (PYS). Robert immediately went from Lefkas to Messolonghi to assist the marina team in the lifting of the boats, to take care of the involved owners and to arrange hotel accommodation.
On Tuesday 07, I flew back to Greece.
On Wednesday 08, we arranged meetings with the boat owners.
Robert Meijer was also present.
In these meetings Messolonghi Marina assured everybody that it would cover the PYS repair costs.
In principle, PYS (a Lloyds certified repair company) could start the repairs immediately.
In the same week the surveyors, together with Robert Meyer inspected all boats and made damage reports.
The next days all boat owners left home, except the family L.
They stayed until Sunday 12 in the hotel (the marina paid for all their expenses).
Then they left for Sicily.
During their absence, PYS was not allowed to do any repair on the Capella.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 01-10-2010 we send the following email:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: S/Y Capella
Messolonghi 01-10-2010
Dear Mr. and Mrs. L.,
Attached I send you the damage rapport from Paleros Yacht Service (PYS).
Together with your rapport of Lavrio Yachts, this will be send to Dircken & Partners, our insurance company in Holland.
I kindly ask to send me asap the name and the damage rapport of your surveyor in order to send this to them also.
Furthermore I like resume the following on the accident and the follow up.
On September 6 the accident happened in which your boat was involved and damaged.
On September 8 we have had a meeting in the marina office together with Robert Meijer from PYS.
In this meeting we have given PYS full permission to start the repair of your boat and stated that the marina would warrant the total payment to PYS.
You told us that you wanted to be present when the repair would be done and that PYS should wait until you had taken your camper from Sicily.
On Sunday September 12 you left for Sicily and you returned around September 22.
After your arrival back to the marina you have had a meeting with PYS about the damage.
Together with PYS you have checked the rapport and adjusted the details.
September 29 we have had a meeting in your camper. In this meeting you told me that you had consulted Lavrio Yachts and that you did not want to work with PYS.
Also you handed me the rapport with prices from Lavrio Yachting.
Today we have sent the PYS rapport and the Lavrio Yachts rapport to our insurance company in Holland.
They have promised to look into this case immediately and will rapport back to us on Monday October 4.
I will contact again you on Monday.
Kind regards,
Jo Mennen
----------------------------------------------------------
On 05-10-2010 we sent the following email for the payment of € 18.500,-
------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: S/Y Capella
Messolonghi 05-10-2010
Dear Mr. and Mrs. L.,
Our insurance company informed us about the following.
The surveyor of your insurance company Mr. X, has made a damage rapport on 08/09/2010 (nr. 10-041154-3).
You have invited Paleros Yacht Services (Lloyds approved) and Lavrio Yachts to make a price offer.
According to the damage rapport both companies have made a price offer.
PYS offer Euro 18.500,- (ex VAT).
Lavrio Yachts 23.640,- (ex VAT).
After studying both price offers, the conclusion is that Lavrio Yachts has offered two items that are out of the survey rapport.
Point. 1 Rollreef un Baum ersetzen Euro 2.600,-
Point. 5 Erzetsen 6 Batterien Euro 850,-
Total Euro 3.450,-
According to the above the total approved damage amount will be limited to the amount as stated in the PYS rapport being Euro 18.500,- ex VAT 23%.
Kind regards,
Jo Mennen
-----------------------------------------------------------
The family L. disagrees with the above proposal.
To keep things moving on 06-10-2010 we send the following email, that suggests their surveyor to have a look at both price offers.
Again we state in this email that we want a quick and good solution for all parties.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Mr. L.,
Thank you for your reply.
I think the best is you contact Mr. x and let him judge about both price offers, at least he is a profesional.
Maybe he wants to have another look at your boat to be sure about the final damage.
Ones again I want to stress that, like you, we all do want your boat to be repaired in a correct way as soon as possible.
From the beginning we agreed to cover all the costs Paleros would be making for all repairs, also the eventually needed repairs that have not been shown yet.
If you had been going along with this, at this moment your boat probably would have been fully repaired.
The only thing is, that no company is willing to pay for " non existing" damages.
Kind regards,
Jo Mennen
Dear readers of this forum.
First I want to appologize that I put personal details from the SY Capella owners on the net. Below the edited thread.
After having read all of this we think it is the time to give a clear view regarding the damage and the follow up on the SY Capella from the family L.
On Monday, 06-10-2010 a boat fell over in the marina.
This boat took in its fall three other boats, among others the SY Capella
Unlike the family L. writes, their boat did not fall due to incorrect propping of their boat, but because another boat took it in its fall.
At the time of the accident I was in Holland. After the accident I called Robert Meyer of Paleros Yacht Service (PYS). Robert immediately went from Lefkas to Messolonghi to assist the marina team in the lifting of the boats, to take care of the involved owners and to arrange hotel accommodation.
On Tuesday 07, I flew back to Greece.
On Wednesday 08, we arranged meetings with the boat owners.
Robert Meijer was also present.
In these meetings Messolonghi Marina assured everybody that it would cover the PYS repair costs.
In principle, PYS (a Lloyds certified repair company) could start the repairs immediately.
In the same week the surveyors, together with Robert Meyer inspected all boats and made damage reports.
The next days all boat owners left home, except the family L.
They stayed until Sunday 12 in the hotel (the marina paid for all their expenses).
Then they left for Sicily.
During their absence, PYS was not allowed to do any repair on the Capella.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 01-10-2010 we send the following email:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: S/Y Capella
Messolonghi 01-10-2010
Dear Mr. and Mrs. L.,
Attached I send you the damage rapport from Paleros Yacht Service (PYS).
Together with your rapport of Lavrio Yachts, this will be send to Dircken & Partners, our insurance company in Holland.
I kindly ask to send me asap the name and the damage rapport of your surveyor in order to send this to them also.
Furthermore I like resume the following on the accident and the follow up.
On September 6 the accident happened in which your boat was involved and damaged.
On September 8 we have had a meeting in the marina office together with Robert Meijer from PYS.
In this meeting we have given PYS full permission to start the repair of your boat and stated that the marina would warrant the total payment to PYS.
You told us that you wanted to be present when the repair would be done and that PYS should wait until you had taken your camper from Sicily.
On Sunday September 12 you left for Sicily and you returned around September 22.
After your arrival back to the marina you have had a meeting with PYS about the damage.
Together with PYS you have checked the rapport and adjusted the details.
September 29 we have had a meeting in your camper. In this meeting you told me that you had consulted Lavrio Yachts and that you did not want to work with PYS.
Also you handed me the rapport with prices from Lavrio Yachting.
Today we have sent the PYS rapport and the Lavrio Yachts rapport to our insurance company in Holland.
They have promised to look into this case immediately and will rapport back to us on Monday October 4.
I will contact again you on Monday.
Kind regards,
Jo Mennen
----------------------------------------------------------
On 05-10-2010 we sent the following email for the payment of € 18.500,-
------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: S/Y Capella
Messolonghi 05-10-2010
Dear Mr. and Mrs. L.,
Our insurance company informed us about the following.
The surveyor of your insurance company Mr. X, has made a damage rapport on 08/09/2010 (nr. 10-041154-3).
You have invited Paleros Yacht Services (Lloyds approved) and Lavrio Yachts to make a price offer.
According to the damage rapport both companies have made a price offer.
PYS offer Euro 18.500,- (ex VAT).
Lavrio Yachts 23.640,- (ex VAT).
After studying both price offers, the conclusion is that Lavrio Yachts has offered two items that are out of the survey rapport.
Point. 1 Rollreef un Baum ersetzen Euro 2.600,-
Point. 5 Erzetsen 6 Batterien Euro 850,-
Total Euro 3.450,-
According to the above the total approved damage amount will be limited to the amount as stated in the PYS rapport being Euro 18.500,- ex VAT 23%.
Kind regards,
Jo Mennen
-----------------------------------------------------------
The family L. disagrees with the above proposal.
To keep things moving on 06-10-2010 we send the following email, that suggests their surveyor to have a look at both price offers.
Again we state in this email that we want a quick and good solution for all parties.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Mr. L.,
Thank you for your reply.
I think the best is you contact Mr. x and let him judge about both price offers, at least he is a profesional.
Maybe he wants to have another look at your boat to be sure about the final damage.
Ones again I want to stress that, like you, we all do want your boat to be repaired in a correct way as soon as possible.
From the beginning we agreed to cover all the costs Paleros would be making for all repairs, also the eventually needed repairs that have not been shown yet.
If you had been going along with this, at this moment your boat probably would have been fully repaired.
The only thing is, that no company is willing to pay for " non existing" damages.
Kind regards,
Jo Mennen
Last edited by a moderator:
Chris_Robb
Well-known member
I also had a problem with Messolonghi Marina when the boat was damaged by the lifting trailer.
I have absolutely no problem with the Marina Management who at ALL TIMES have been helpful and courteous.
Paleros Yacht Services also quoted for work to be done to repair the boat. This quote consisted of 1 line - the price. We asked for a specification, we never got it. I cannot therefore deal with that kind of quote. Actually it insults my intelligence. My insurance company concurs.
As a consequence we had to move the boat to Aktio Marine in Prevesa for repairs as Paleros has an exclusive contract in Messolonghi - which I do acknowledge was waived belatedly by the marina - but by that time I had already made arrangements and paid for air tickets.
I repeat - I have no problem with the Marina - it is great and I hope it succeeds, but I think they will live to regret the day that an exclusive contract was given to Paleros Yacht Services.
One other point - Jo, you must do something about that trailer. Take a look at the one in Aktio Marine - twice as many support pads and twice the size of yours. Please please please do something about it.
I have absolutely no problem with the Marina Management who at ALL TIMES have been helpful and courteous.
Paleros Yacht Services also quoted for work to be done to repair the boat. This quote consisted of 1 line - the price. We asked for a specification, we never got it. I cannot therefore deal with that kind of quote. Actually it insults my intelligence. My insurance company concurs.
As a consequence we had to move the boat to Aktio Marine in Prevesa for repairs as Paleros has an exclusive contract in Messolonghi - which I do acknowledge was waived belatedly by the marina - but by that time I had already made arrangements and paid for air tickets.
I repeat - I have no problem with the Marina - it is great and I hope it succeeds, but I think they will live to regret the day that an exclusive contract was given to Paleros Yacht Services.
One other point - Jo, you must do something about that trailer. Take a look at the one in Aktio Marine - twice as many support pads and twice the size of yours. Please please please do something about it.
Capella1
New member
Capella1
New member
This is not true.
First of all they never mentioned neither in this meeting nor later, that their promise to pay for the repairs is made only under the condition that PYS does the repairs. Even later the manager said: it is up to you which company does the repairs. The surveyor, who inspected the damages two days after the accident wrote in his report: PYS is INVITED to submit a quotation.
How is it then possible that we - according to Messolonghi Marina - placed an order the same day?
Capella1
New member
This is not true.
The french couple of the boat to fall first, was with us in the hotel. They left only a day before us. The cost for the hotel was the least the marina could do for us, since we could not live on our damaged boat! This was very difficult for us liveaboards.
Capella1
New member
This is absolute nonsense.
We left for Sicily between Sept. 12 - 17.
On Oct. 01 they are trying to talk us into a "placed order with PYS on Sept. 08"
Consequently, on Oct. 04. we aksed them not to enter our boat WITHOUT US KNOWING respectively WITHOUT US BEING PRESENT. What's the problem with that?
Capella1
New member
Absolutely inacceptable to limit the repair value amount. All the time they were telling us, that - in case further damages should occur during the repair - those will of course be repair.
How - in case of limitation?
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