misreading coll regs

[jimi]

Re: Oh dear .... to oldharry

Right then .. you've asked for it .. last year you were on my port quarter and we were both on starboard when your granddaughter started hollering at me to give way ... I did'nt cos I was the stand on boat and your granddaughter was bang out of order ...

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[tome]

Re: Oh dear .... to oldharry

Yes, I saw this incident and thought it was disgraceful the way grandad was shaking his white stick at you.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Sans Bateau]

Re: Simply put - Col Regs take precedent over all ..

I didn’t write the Col Regs and rule 1 (or is it 2, I don’t have a copy in front of me) basically says even if you do technically have right of way as the stand on vessel, be prepared to give way to avoid a collision.

Using QE2/Oriana or fishing boat engaged in fishing etc etc, are examples of when other rules come into effect; which point of sail you are on or from which side you are approaching under power is overridden by those rules.

One should expect another yacht or power boat, when they are not the stand on vessel, to recognise the Col Regs. However at some point a decision has to be made that you are going to exercise rule 1 (2)


<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[steve_cronin]

It sounds like.....

...you ought to make the move to the Med too!

Stern-to mooring. Often a bay all to yourself. wonderful scenery. No yobs on "Bonding" weekends. No tides. Cheap food & drink. Mooring fees overnight almost non-existant. Annual fees <50% of UK south coast prices. Brilliant deals with Easyjet & Thompsons to get there.

There was something else...


Oh yes


The Weather!

Steve Cronin





<hr width=100% size=1>The above is, like any other post here, only a personal opinion

 

[Ubergeekian]

"On holiday in Rothesay recently I did not see one vessel showing the appropriate shapes described in the Colregs other than the ferries."

I don't think I've /ever/ seen a yacht displaying a shape. Frankly, I don't think it matters.

Ian

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Sans Bateau]

I use an inverted cone, when motorsailing, why not? I know that not many people do, but it does matter, you should use one.

You cannot be selective with the Col Regs.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Dougie_the_Mate]

I think that is the point I was trying to make in an oblique manner. The regulations are like the Highway Code in that they are meant to guide and advise us while sailing. If some choose to ignore them completely then it puts everyone else at a disadvantage in terms of knowing what they are about. Yachts who do not show a cone when motorsailing can lead to confusion as to which is the stand on vessel if they are converging and yet the rules of the road are quite clear about such matters.

I am not the type of person who would stand his ground when it was obviously dangerous, but it is useful to know what folk are about.

I was not criticising the guy who kept his anchor light on, but simply trying to make the point that some people are extra cautious and others quite cavalier.

In our own accident the helmsman was under the impression that because we were motoring and he was sailing that this in someway absolved him from ramming us.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[gjeffery]

In Chichester, a motor sailing cone is not required - if the motor sailor lets the sheets fly. (LNTM 3/00 c)

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[steve_cronin]

Just a note on the Highway Code.....

"...resolution made by parliament that although failure to adhere to the provisions of the Highway Code shall not of itself be an offence, failure to adhere to such provisions may be relied upon to establish or negate any liability in any proceedings criminal or civil..."

(You'll find it just inside the book) & I think you'll find that the Colregs have a similar if not greater BITE with the IMO and courts national & international!

Good dul- rainy-friday evening - I'm going home!

Steve Cronin

<hr width=100% size=1>The above is, like any other post here, only a personal opinion

 

[Mike21]

Re: Simply put - Col Regs take precedent over all ..

Actually local byelaws override colregs ( rule 1)/forums/images/icons/smile.gif
But tend to agree if everyone sticks to the rules they do work, but unfortunately some are ignorant of the rules, some ignore them and some interprete them to suit themselves, so although personnally I always try to follow the rules where possible ultimately I would always abide by is rule 2.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Guest]

Check final verdicts from Marine Investigations ..

You will find that ALL incidents / collsions except where only one vessel is involved are shared %age verdicts and NOT ONE vessel 100% to blame.

A stand-on vessel will receive part blame in that he has not acted to avert collision after it is apparent that action of the give-way vessel alone is not sufficient.

Don't believe me ------- check it out .....


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/

 

[Guest]

Re: Simply put - Col Regs take precedent over all

Signatories to the IMO are bound by the Col Regs and Bye-laws I would be surprised to over-ride them and be accepted in a Marine Court. It may be written into Bye-Laws about precedent etc. - but I think it would be hard for a signatory nation to uphold a Bye-law situation ....... bit like Copyright Statements .... such as a certain well known Chart Plotting PC program states that Chart Licences are not transferable with the CD when sold of s/hand ..... it may apply in home country of authorship, but does not apply in Euro-land .... purchase of the article entitles transfer of title and licence - seller is obliged to remove and stop use of licence etc.

There are many instances of statements of rules / laws etc. that in fact are not enforceable due to international agreements / ratifications etc.

Interestingly - there is one area that is in my mind ludicrous - that is International Buoyage ..... Sytem A for us and most of world .... System B for US influenced areas ..... now I will leave that one for others to explain ...... the difference !


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/

 

[Guest]

No thanks .....

I enjoy sailing in Latvia, Estonia and UK .... giving me quiet river, quiet perfect bay sailing and Solent .....

What more can I ask .... just more time to do it ....



<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/

 

[guyward]

i heartily agree with you that when on a mooring it is a good idea to show a light at night( in case you were run down - they would know that someone was aboard)
i illuminate the cockpit.
guy

<hr width=100% size=1>belt&braces

 

[Mike21]

Re: Simply put - Col Regs take precedent over all

Actually it says so in the rules
Rule1
b)Nothing in these Rules shall interfere in the operation of special rules made by an appropriate authority for roadsteads, harbors, rivers, lakes or inland waterways connected with the high seas and navigable by seagoing vessels. Such special rules shall conform as closely as possible to these Rules.

(c) Nothing in these Rules shall interfere with the operation of any special rules made by the Government of any State with respect to additional station or signal lights or shapes or whistle signals for ships of war and vessels proceeding under convoy, or with respect to additional station or signal lights for fishing vessels fishing as a fleet. These additional station or signal lights or whistle signals shall, so far as possible, be such that they cannot be mistaken for any light, shape, or signal authorized elsewhere under these Rules.


Interestingly - there is one area that is in my mind ludicrous - that is International Buoyage ..... Sytem A for us and most of world .... System B for US influenced areas ..... now I will leave that one for others to explain ...... the difference !

Totally agree, but that's the Yanks for you/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif




<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[peterb]

Buoyage

The yanks were put into a very difficult position. For many years they had been hammering into seamen's heads a simple mnemonic: "Red, Right, Returning". Now they were being asked to reverse one out of three of the words (think about it!). What would have happened in the transition period? An overnight change just wasn't on the cards.

Anyone who knows Harwich Harbour will know that Shotley Spit runs roughly WNW from the Shotley Spit Buoy, much closer to W than it is to N. It would seem logical, then, to mark it with an East Cardinal Mark, rather than the South Cardinal that is actually placed there. But before the 1976 transition, Walton By (on the east side of the River Orwell just opposite Shotley) flashed Gp Fl 3, following the then current system of using an odd number of white flashes to show a starboard hand mark. If Shotley Spit had been made an East Cardinal, then a Gp Fl 3 buoy would have been moved from one side of the river to the other, with obvious risks of becoming a mis-leading mark. So Trinity House made it a South Cardinal instead, to avoid confusion. Not as bad as Region A / Region B, but very much on the same principles.

What has interested me is the reaction I've had from a number of American sailors: "Of course, you over there are different from everyone else, you put red buoys to port." Take first the mote from thy own eye.......?

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[graham]

Re: Sorry....

Steve ,I dont know the rule number but there is a rule that says if you cant definitely determine which tack the other sailing vessel is on you must give way .

Personally I wopuld prefer to try not to let the situation develop in the first place(not allways that simple i know).

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[peterb]

An easier way of putting it?

That Rule 12(iii) has always seemed to me to be longwinded. I wonder whether it isn't more easily expressed as "If a vessel cannot determine with certainty which side another vessel has the wind, then she shall assume that the other vessel has the wind on the starboard side", or in yachting terms, "If you can't tell which tack the other vessel is on, then assume she's on starboard." I can't see that the bit about the other vessel being to windward is necessary.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Guest]

The easiest way of all ...

If unsure for what ever reason ..... get the 'ell out there and keep clear .... !


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/

 

[steve_cronin]

I believe you! I believe you!

but it is the Colregs that are used to determine such blame. THEy state that it is every pary's duty to avoid collision, after all.

Steve Cronin



<hr width=100% size=1>The above is, like any other post here, only a personal opinion