misreading coll regs

guyward

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The following is a report of an incident which may be of interest to others who may find themselves in a similar situation:

There seems to be prevalent a misinterpretation of the collision rules. Some people who are under sail are mistakenly applying to a collision situation Rule 15 – Crossing Situation “ When two POWER DRIVEN vessels are crossing so as to involve risk of collision, the vessel which has the other on her own starboard side shall keep clear, and should if possible avoid crossing ahead of the other.” instead of Rule 12 - Sailing Vessels “(a) When two SAILING VESSELS are approaching one another, so as to involve risk of collision, one of them shall keep out of the way of the other as follows: (i) when each has the wind on a different side, the vessel which has the wind on the port side shall keep out of the way of the other.”

I was sailing my ketch “JO-LENE” up the coast from Harwich towards the Ore Bar with wind from ESE and on starboard tack when a small sloop on port tack approached 45degs on my stbd bow. I naturally thought that he would go round my stern, but no, at the last moment when I was about to luff up to avoid collision, he tacked and in passing me mouthed all sorts of invective including “ ignorant b*****d” and “you should learn how to sail”.

If we had both been UNDER POWER then Rule 15 would, of course, have applied and I would then have been the “give way” vessel.

Similar situations have occurred in the past, both to me and to others with whom I have talked!

(Yachtmaster Offshore 16797)


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Talbot

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I have had this as well, and these iggirant peps seem to think that the boom over on the starboard side means a starboard tack! /forums/images/icons/crazy.gif Believe that the teaching of this assumes too much knowledge.

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Bodach na mara

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If my interpretation of the situation is correct, you were stand-on vessel. The other boat was not only on port tack, but was to windward of you (and should keep clear) and also sailing off the wind (and should keep clear). I will be interested in any other interpretation, however the relative sizes of the vessels has a bearing. Two cases come to mind.

Vanora (a folkboat) luffed Cuan-na Mara (a 36 ft hull length gaff ketch with a 15 ft long bowsprit) sharply. Vanora had the right to do so as leeward boat and boat being passed, however the bowsprit took out the backstay and brought the mast down. That lead to a very expensive court case.

Having seen that incident, the next week Twinkle (GP14, me) hardened up round the leeward mark, aware that a 22 ft keelboat was trying to cut in without rights to do so. His bow passed between me and my crew and sank us! That affair was settled amicably over a few pints during which I learned that right of way is no respector of momentum!

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tome

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I agree that there seems to be some confusion between rules 12 and 15, and I had a similiar incident off Dodmans pt a few weeks back. Wind SW'ly and I was heading south on stbd when another sailing boat heading east also on stbd crossing from starboard ahead. I stood on until it was clear that he wasn't about to budge then luffed around his transom close enough to hear him (the windward boat) cursing me and threatening to report me!

'Best have another look at your collision regs' I cheerfully enjoyed and went on my way.

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snowleopard

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amazing how often people think they're in the right when totally wrong. for example during a race the commodore of the club is bearing down on me on a reach, his wife who has been sailing for 40 years is screaming "starboard" at me. as we pass i say "so am i but you're the windward boat". went a bit quiet after that.

but it happens in all walks of life - recently met a guy coming the wrong way down a one-way street yelling abuse at me. he was absolutely convinced he was in the right even though he had just passed a no entry sign.

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peterb

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This is the problem with people who never actually read Colregs, they rely on hearsay or someone else's interpretation. In fact, if you read Colregs, the words "starboard tack" or "port tack" are never used. Instead, it says "where each has the wind on a different side, the vessel which has the wind on the port side shall keep out of the way of the other;"

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peterb

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You're talking about racing rules, not Colregs.

I'm not a racer, but certainly under Colregs there is no such thing as luffing rights. If Vanora was the stand-on boat, then under Colregs she is required to "keep her course and speed" (Rule 17(a)(i)).

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starboard

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I have said this many times before.....the colregs only work if everyone fully understands them....it seems often this is not the case and therefore puts those of us that do undrstand and comply in some tricky situations!!

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gjeffery

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I take your generalpoint, that might is right. But is there a danger of deepening the confusion by introducing examples based on the IYRU rules?

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gjeffery

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Can the IYRU rules conflict with ColRegs? Under Rule 12, the leward boat becomes the stand on vessel, when both boats have the wind on the same side.

12 (ii) When both have the wind on the same side, the vessel which is to windward shall keep out of the way of the vessel which is to leeward;


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Talbot

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<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

Can the IYRU rules conflict with ColRegs? Under Rule 12, the leward boat becomes the stand on vessel, when both boats have the wind on the same side.


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surely this conflicts with the overtaking rule, where the vessel overtaking must keep out of the way until past and clear.

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BustinAround

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Thats in the racing rules too. Sort of... I think it used to be in there explicitly way back. The current standing is if you gain an overlap from behind, you have to maintain your proper course, and of course if you try and pass to windard then you have to keep clear.

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Talbot

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gaining an overlap is not quite the same as keeping out of the way until past and clear. I dont go as well to windward as some others, and have had another boat coming up behind and trying to pass to leeward of me, and then complaining that I was leaning on him, so he must have been using racing rules, whereas I was following colreg.

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