Midships cleat for mooring... or not?

laika said:
… * as the line tautens the stern will pivot in but because a sailing boat doesn't normally taper rapidly to the stern …
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Well some do!

http://www.mikelucasyachting.co.uk/...adler+32+deep+fin+keel&photo_name=layout+plan

Perhaps I do have the midships cleats too far forward (I’ll look carefully and think about it) but at least with the bow swinging in towards the (starboard side) finger of our home berth Mrs H can go forward on the finger (having dropped the snubber on its end cleat) and control the bow, and the stern does not swing out too far. The other way, the bows could strike a main pontoon pile to port. But I, too, am a bit embarrassed at times as you are, as it can look messy – but there’s no risk of damage to us or our neighbour.
 
Mid-ships Cleat to Sheet Winch
This is another alternative: spliced loop of line on mid-ships cleat, line back to winch on cockpit coaming with plenty of slack to drop over pontoon cleat. Drop bight of warp over the pontoon cleat (if you are not in France) and winch the boat sideways. Works well on windward pontoons, even with long keep and 7.5 tons displacement.
 
Just to add another element, we berth in a marina with loops instead of cleats, therefore nothing to drop a bowline over. So we bought a mooring hook, with a line of just the right length from the midships cleat we hook that onto the first loop of the finger (port side to in our case), motor slowly ahead rudder to starboard, she lays gently alongside whilst we sort out the breast ropes and springs. The same hook also works for most cleats and bouys.

Edit-we decided on a snap hook device rather than one which passed a line through a loop because we wanted an instant, positive attachment with minimal fiddling about, once moored the proper lines are attached and the hook removed at leisure.
 
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I was recommended Duncan Wells book : Stress Free Sailing Single and Short handed techniques. One technique he prefers over the midships spring is using a stern bridle. Boat handling does not need to be so precise as you lasso the cleat with the line running from stern cleat to midship cleat, crucially with one end of the line leading to a cockpit winch (as earlier posters have mentioned) and winching in. So a toe rail block midships could make that easier, although a cleat does give more options. The beauty is you don't need to leave the cockpit to do this. As a less experienced pontoon basher I like the idea and hope to use it soon. Just a bit suprised others haven't mentioned the technique more explicitly.
PS I really rate the book, very clear and simple ...... like me
 
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FairweatherDave said:
One technique he prefers over the midships spring is using a stern bridle.
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Another advantage of this is that it stops the stern swinging out. The downside is that depending on boat length and freeboard the hold of the bridle on a cleat positioned in a fore-aft orientation as found on my (and most) finger pontoons can end up being a little precarious. It has worked for me but I'm not altogether happy about the bridle hanging off one corner of the cleat.
 
An interesting thread, but no where does anyone mention the term 'Panama' for the midships cleat. I assume the term originates from the Panama Canal. Does anyone else refer to their midships cleat when used for mooring as the 'Panama' ?
 
We usually use our midships cleat when coming alongside and we refer to the warp on the midships cleat as the Panama - a term I picked up from a Joint Services skipper on a Challenge 67.
 
Make sure the cleat is precisely the middle of the boat, the reason is at the end. We had a midships cleat on a steel boat and stopped it by jumping ashore with a rope and tied it to a cleat by the stern, it holds the boat parallel to the pontoon, if there is a crosswind blowing you off the pontoon put bit of engine power on and you stay paralell while you get the fore and aft ropes on. If it not midships the boat will end up at an angle and with a crosswind engine power will make the bows or stern hit the pontoon subject to where the cleat is.
 
KellysEye said:
Make sure the cleat is precisely the middle of the boat, the reason is at the end. We had a midships cleat on a steel boat and stopped it by jumping ashore with a rope and tied it to a cleat by the stern, it holds the boat parallel to the pontoon, if there is a crosswind blowing you off the pontoon put bit of engine power on and you stay paralell while you get the fore and aft ropes on. If it not midships the boat will end up at an angle and with a crosswind engine power will make the bows or stern hit the pontoon subject to where the cleat is.
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Sorry to disagree, but the position of the cleat depends entirely on the configuration of the boat it's on, and what works for one has to be modified for another....
 
This has been a revealing thread, for years I have not attempted to put mid cleat mooring into practice because I could not picture the detailed force vectors or the exact procedure. I always thought I was failing to comprehend some missing secret sauce of mid cleat mooring. Now it transpires that the vocal proponents of the technique here all picture someting different.

I think I will try some static tests while on a finger pontoon and see what works for my yacht. The variation of the technique that I find simpler to picture and more convincing is to use propwash and helm to pin the bow to the pontoon and I believe a shorter (say 1/4 loa) snubber line will help create a force that will also keep the stern tucked up against the finger.
 
laika said:
Another advantage of this is that it stops the stern swinging out. The downside is that depending on boat length and freeboard the hold of the bridle on a cleat positioned in a fore-aft orientation as found on my (and most) finger pontoons can end up being a little precarious. It has worked for me but I'm not altogether happy about the bridle hanging off one corner of the cleat.
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I've studied the book today as your post concerned me (as someone a bit light on real world pontoon experience). In one bit he said a stern bridle might not be so good on high freeboard boats with pontoon cleats aligned fore and aft. But I was wondering if in your particular situation your finger pontoon is too short to use the stern cleat (assuming bows in) and you could have used the cockpit winch direct to the pontoon cleat and then forward to the midship cleat? Just wondering.
 
FairweatherDave said:
But I was wondering if in your particular situation your finger pontoon is too short to use the stern cleat (assuming bows in) and you could have used the cockpit winch direct to the pontoon cleat and then forward to the midship cleat? Just wondering.
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Interesting thought. Yes the length of the finger is an issue exactly as you say: the problem arises because the stern cleat is behind (and above) the pontoon-end cleat: If it were forward of pontoon cleat the bridle would wrap round the pontoon cleat securely. In my experience though it's rare to score a finger berth a metre or more longer than your boat. We're pretty lucky that our berth is less than a metre shorter than the boat.

The cockpit winch unfortunately is not a good solution for us: centre cockpit so the primary winch is *way* forward of the stern, somewhat high and inboard and has no clear lead to a pontoon cleat otherwise I'd be using a short line from the winch directly rather than via the centre cleat.

Spurred on by this thread I shall redouble my experimentation in the coming weeks. First Mate wonders why I keep mucking about seeing as how we've never actually made contact with anything we didn't intend to even if it doesn't always look pretty...
 
Very useful tool and we use it a fair bit if coming alongside. Main problem in Spain is that most marineros haven't a clue about them. So they tend to grab it from my wife before she gets ashore and run in a random, usually wrong, direction. We then end up with a guy at either bow or stern pulling a 5m line instead of a metre of slack to the post we were aiming for. It still works as long as it isn't too windy. We've taken to handing them a long dummy bow or stern line to keep them occupied for the 5-10 seconds it takes to get the mid-ship line tied. :D:D

Seems to work as long as the marinero doesn't start hauling in the bow/stern line and just tries to pass the loose end back (well after we are actually tied up).
 
Mistroma said:
We've taken to handing them a long dummy bow or stern line to keep them occupied for the 5-10 seconds it takes to get the mid-ship line tied. :D:D

Seems to work as long as the marinero doesn't start hauling in the bow/stern line and just tries to pass the loose end back (well after we are actually tied up).
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Reminds me of berthing in an East Coast marina, a lady came on to the finger to take a line from us, which she did, and then just chucked it back... without putting it round a cleat....
 
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>Sorry to disagree, but the position of the cleat depends entirely on the configuration of the boat it's on, and what works for one has to be modified for another....

The configurations being what?
 
superheat6k said:
An interesting thread, but no where does anyone mention the term 'Panama' for the midships cleat. I assume the term originates from the Panama Canal. Does anyone else refer to their midships cleat when used for mooring as the 'Panama' ?
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As far as I'm concerned, this is a Panama:

4129071.jpg


Basically any mooring line fairlead that completely surrounds the line, regardless of its location on the ship. Can be freestanding like in the picture or incorporated into a solid bulwark.

I was told that "Panama fairleads" with a closed top were needed because of the locks, where the line would need to lead upwards. Alongside normal quays the lead would always be downwards for a ship of any size, so open-topped fairleads were fine. But nowadays the "Panama" style tends to be fitted regardless, and the term used loosely just means "fairlead", not special kit for the Canal.

On the three ships I sailed on, Panama was the only term ever used for this item, and the term referred to nothing else. I've never heard the "midships cleat" idea.

Pete
 
>Shape of the plan view, position of prop and degree of prop wash, engine power, windage, keel, etc etc etc...

OK so how far forward or back from midships would you put a cleat? Choose six different boats and answer the question for those.
 
KellysEye said:
>Shape of the plan view, position of prop and degree of prop wash, engine power, windage, keel, etc etc etc...

OK so how far forward or back from midships would you put a cleat? Choose six different boats and answer the question for those.
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For older "teardrop" shaped boats, I'd start about 6" to a foot behind the widest part, for a modern wide transom job, a bit further?

I'm lucky enough to have ally toe rail which the cleats bolt through, so for me I can try it and move it...
 
laika said:
I strongly advise you to try before you buy. Or "before you drill any holes" in this case. The widest part of the beam is the obvious place for putting a cleat but it might not be ideal if your primary objective is to be able to pin your boat to the pontoon when mooring short handed. On my boat powering against a mid-ship line with the helm over will often result in the stern swinging away from the pontoon. Having your centre line a little further back might make things easier. You could try directly from a winch. My freeboard and winch positions mean there's not really a good lead to a pontoon cleat. Gib car might work but as you say might have the same issue as my winches. I've seen it suggested that a line could be lead forward from a winch round a stanchion on the basis that stanchion bases are much stronger than the bendier upper bits and it's not *that* much load in the grand scheme of things. You look like you've got a perforated toe rail there (I don't) so I'd think about putting a block on the toe rail and leading my mid ship line from a winch through it: You can play with the position until it's right.

If you do go with the cleat at the widest part and the boat does swing the stern out when powering against a mid ship line, there's techniques to combat that but that's maybe a thread in itself.

TBH 6 years into owning this boat and invariably sailing it short handed I'm still experimenting.
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+1. Ive done exactly this- fitted mid ship cleats just aft of max beam. Boy - hasn't it made short handed mooring a doddle!
 
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