MFV Larchwood Planking / Oak Frames

[marineone]

Hello everyone,

Some advice needed on the dreaded wooden boat. First off I know that it will be a money pit, I'm just trying to assess what kind of damage I'm looking at before I take the plunge. It's a 1950's MFV made of 1 5/8 ” Larch planking / Oak frames with larch deck. LOA 50' X Beam 16'. I'll need a wood specialist surveyor to find out if there's any structural issues, I'm not sure how much time she's spent dry & I know that can be a problem with oak frames.

Assuming she's structurally sound, hull wise maybe some planks will need replacing, but what is the best option for replacing &/or repainting the hull? Putting to one side for a second what I'll do about the condensation inside, what you recommend for the hull & deck?

I'm hearing conflicting things about various methods like you'll get blisters with this or rot where you can't see it with that. I'm not concerned with the structure, if the survey shows up anything of that nature I'll move on or with wood drying out, she'll be in the water all year (except for maintenance) just shoring up the hull & deck so there's no water ingress.

I know a lot of more modern methods can basically sit outside the wood & look nice while it rots inside (GRP, epoxy etc). I can invest to give the hull an overhaul so I'm in the best possible footing for day to day / annual maintenance, need a bit of guidance as to how best to attack it.

What do you recommend on a larchwood hull?


Appreciate the benefit of your trail & error.

 

[Eyore]

Nothing dreaded about wooden boats assuming they have been maintained. The problems start when making up for years of neglect and corner cutting. Wooden trawlers of that age have all had a hard life and are usually hogged, strained or generally worn out. The timbers may well be basically sound ,but you can be sure the fastenings aren't . There will also be vast areas of the boat that will be inaccessible . Many trawlers had concrete ballast under the fish hold, and they may be internally lined with a cork insulation between the inner lining and the hull. Another enemy is fresh water leaks from rain through a leaking deck which will cause rot. Take care to check where the frames meet the deck at the bottom of the bulwarks. Anyway get a surveyor one way or the other. Regarding painting, its a traditional wooden working boat and its lasted with traditonal paint which you are probably better to stick with. Have you any photos of the boat?

 

[sarabande]

What do you recommend on a larchwood hull?

.

Even Russian larch which has more resin (a natural preservative) than UK timber, would be reaching its natural and expected expiry date after 60 years. Fresh water (rain) is the enemy.

Fastenings have been mentioned, and they too, even if dipped in pitch before driving, are likely to be becoming 'sick.


Unless you are very lucky, or possessed of a fat wallet and limitless patience, the boat will entail huge amounts of work.

There are stories of old wooden boats being covered in GRP (Cascomat sheathing ?) , only to experience dramatically accelerated rot bcs the wood can't breathe.

 

[johnlilley]

Bear in mind that a survey of any quality is going to be prohibitively expensive on a vessel of this size. Before purchasing or instructing a surveyor, I would strongly advise to assess her as much as possible beforehand. This is obviously quite difficult if one has limited experience of timber vessels. If you look on my website you can get a survey template for wooden vessels which is completely free and might help you start to understand what to look for. You might get a better idea of possible expense ahead and save the cost of professional inspection if you ultimately have to walk away.
Alternatively get a boatbuilder to have a quick look.
The risks have been outlined in part by a previous knowledgable post. Fastenings will be steel or iron, if steel then obvious corrosion risks. Freshwater decay above the waterline a definite risk. Electrolytic decay a risk below the waterline, especially around stern tube deadwood and rudder tubes internally.
Because of her size, the size of timber used can be extremely difficult and expensive to handle, and in the case of centreline structure, virtually impossible to replace major areas at economic cost. Small shipyard facilities are required in some cases.
That is possibly the worst case scenario, however deck repairs are straightforward as are some frame repairs. You would most likely maintain her original spec although heavy ply decks which are sheathed can add a lot of strength to a slightly flexible hull, although they would be difficult to seal where the bulwark frames pierce the deck and short life if not perfect.

Sometimes the cost of purchase is a mere drop in the ocean compared to the potential cost of restoration, so do your investigation on all areas before spending a penny is my best advice.

Many see such a large vessel for such a low price and start spending.....then never stop, and never get the cost back.

John Lilley

 

[burgundyben]

I suggest reading John Lilley's post at least five times, carefully and slowly.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Worth remembering that commercial wooden boats were built to last long enough to recover the outlay and make a profit, but not necessarily much more than that. Materials and fastenings won't have been chosen with an indefinite life in mind; they will have been chosen to be the cheapest that could be expected to give an economic return within a relatively short period. Yes, a lot of wooden commercial vessels do last a lot longer than the expected commercial life, but that's not by design, it's good luck that the builder had long-lasting materials available cheap!

60 years is WAY past any economic lifespan of a wooden boat, so I'd certainly expect all sorts of problems, some of which might be terminal in nature. In the days of wooden ships, ships were often more or less completely rebuilt at 30+ years life; that might be taken as a reasonable commercial life for a wooden vessel.

 

[Seanick]

With a bit of restoration, perspiration, dedication, and all the spare cash you have, you can do it.
50' is very big though. Whjat will you do with it when she is up together?

Heres mine, which was a basket case. I did it when I was younger, no mortgage, no kids, and put my heart and sole into it. 15 years later, with eight seasons sailing under her belt, she is no trouble and cheap to run.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8W6MZS6gCo


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dpbc3ghTmZk

I put in 7-10k/yr for 7/8 yrs


Enjoy

 

[jerrytug]

Great boat Seanick. Looks fast as well!

 

[Eyore]

Great boat Seanick. Looks fast as well!

+1 :encouragement: Absolute cracker.

 

[Capt Popeye]

Absolutely incredible restoration project, very well done, makes most spring fitting outs look like an afternoon project by comparison.

 

[petehitch]

An excellent restoration, well done.

 

[Bodach na mara]

Regarding the original query about coatings, it is true that sheathing and epoxy coatings on a old boat are the kiss of death. I have often seen boats treated this way but I seldom see them much after that. They are maybe best regarded as a way of getting a few more years out of the boat before taking a chain saw to it and celebrating Guy Fawkes on the beach.

Traditional alkyd paints (the type that replaced the old slow-drying oil paints) kept these boats decorated and preserved for most of their lives and are where you will probably start your search for materials. They are easy to apply and fairly cheap, but involve regular re-painting. Which is what we all used to do before we deserted wood for the dreaded GRP.

 

[milltech]

Here's the thing... don't start! My advice would be that if you're thinking of doing this yourself she's too big a boat. There are plenty of "Forth Bridge" type projects going backwards on the south coast. You need to get a team on board and hit the work hard, and this entails a deep pocket.

HOWEVER, if she's sound and usable you might think of using her, slapping on paint and little more, amortising your boat over a few years and say goodbye when the time comes. Don't worry about the little inconvenient deck leaks and such, it will cost you a house to find and resolve all the issues.

If I sound a little negative its because I bought a nice little boat in need of a new deck, didn't pay too much for the boat but the eventual cost has been well more than double what she's worth, no I'll correct that, more than double what I'm asking, what she's worth a buyer will tell me. And when the shipwright towards the end of the project suggested I might stop I pointed out I was in too deep to stop, if I didn't finish I'd have wasted all that went before.

I thought I'd bought a bargain. She will be now but she wasn't then!

 

[burgundyben]

There are plenty of "Forth Bridge" type projects going backwards on the south coast.

At least one in every yard. It leads one to wonder why people carry on paying the fees.

Hit it hard with a big team and pockets is a sensible plan if the end result is likely to be worthwhile.

 

[milltech]

At least one in every yard. It leads one to wonder why people carry on paying the fees.

Hit it hard with a big team and pockets is a sensible plan if the end result is likely to be worthwhile.

It's a while since I've played on here, good to see the usual suspects are still about, what are you floating in these days?

 

[burgundyben]

It's a while since I've played on here, good to see the usual suspects are still about, what are you floating in these days?

Same boat, the Huntsman 28, she's a bit triggers broom now though.

How are you keeping?

 

[Romeo]

Hello everyone,

Some advice needed on the dreaded wooden boat. First off I know that it will be a money pit, I'm just trying to assess what kind of damage I'm looking at before I take the plunge. It's a 1950's MFV made of 1 5/8 ” Larch planking / Oak frames with larch deck. LOA 50' X Beam 16'. I'll need a wood specialist surveyor to find out if there's any structural issues, I'm not sure how much time she's spent dry & I know that can be a problem with oak frames.

Assuming she's structurally sound, hull wise maybe some planks will need replacing, but what is the best option for replacing &/or repainting the hull? Putting to one side for a second what I'll do about the condensation inside, what you recommend for the hull & deck?

I'm hearing conflicting things about various methods like you'll get blisters with this or rot where you can't see it with that. I'm not concerned with the structure, if the survey shows up anything of that nature I'll move on or with wood drying out, she'll be in the water all year (except for maintenance) just shoring up the hull & deck so there's no water ingress.

I know a lot of more modern methods can basically sit outside the wood & look nice while it rots inside (GRP, epoxy etc). I can invest to give the hull an overhaul so I'm in the best possible footing for day to day / annual maintenance, need a bit of guidance as to how best to attack it.

What do you recommend on a larchwood hull?


Appreciate the benefit of your trail & error.

Don't bother. Buy Milltech's Inchcape instead and go sailing. You will spend less money, have just as much if not more satisfaction, and Milltech will be happy too. Win Win Win (no connection). http://www.inchcapeforsale.co.uk/

ps My small boat is larch on oak, and is 80 years old this year. The wood is certainly getting tired, and I am not sure whether I will be able to nurse her through to 100 or not. If she makes it to 100 I may treat her to a new hull!

 

[milltech]

Don't bother. Buy Milltech's Inchcape instead and go sailing. You will spend less money, have just as much if not more satisfaction, and Milltech will be happy too. Win Win Win (no connection). http://www.inchcapeforsale.co.uk/

ps My small boat is larch on oak, and is 80 years old this year. The wood is certainly getting tired, and I am not sure whether I will be able to nurse her through to 100 or not. If she makes it to 100 I may treat her to a new hull!

If that is yours in your avatar she looks just great, got a bigger picture? Oh, and thanks for the plug!

 

[Romeo]

If that is yours in your avatar she looks just great, got a bigger picture? Oh, and thanks for the plug!

The boat in the Avatar is a St Ayles skiff (ply/ epoxy kit built rowing boat: www.scottishcoastalrowing.org)

My boat is a bit more saily:

I know your boat was built in Eyemouth. Mine went down for a refit there at one point, with work being supervised by Jim Evans. (Apologies for the brief thread hijack)

 

[milltech]

Good looking boat, Skipper looks a bit salty too! And no sign of an engine box either. Sea a bit grey .... says a man gazing out over the Med.