Messalonghi Marina

[charles_reed]

This really is an objectionable post.

As far as I read it most people are making the point that things start to go wrong when you get lifted out and have work done. That was the point I tried to make in my posting - which I have now edited/added to make it absolutely clear. We had a great time in the Marina until we were lifted out.

Even you point out current problems: "...somewhat erratic in the supply of hot water"

When we were there this was because Yiannis actually instructed the marineros to turn OFF the electric heaters and rely on the solar heaters only. This was confirmed by one friendly marinero who showed me the breaker and turned it back on for me.

How can you defend a man like this when he is charging you for hot water that he's not supplying?

I think all the negative posters you talk about have actually been there so are not talking out of ignorance. Being accused of being self-opinionated is fine - but being accused of being ignorant exposes your ignorance.

I'm sorry you find my post and the truth objectionable.

Things only go wrong if you expect too much of what is, a business in its infancy.

Regarding hot water, and I've spent about 5 months in the marina on and off (have you) there have been annoying occasions when the immersion heaters have not been turned on. Mostly the cold water has been sheer pressure of users, overwhelming the limited heating capacity of the electric immersion heaters.
That has now been relieved by opening the 2nd set of conveniences.

Those who maintain that Yianni gave instructions to the marineros "to not turn on the heaters and rely on the solar heating" were no doubt there when the instructions were given.
I on the other hand have been where he has given strict instructions that the immersion heaters be turned on at dusk.
Most of the negative posters have been away for a considerable time, have no knowledge of the current situation and are indulging a spiteful subjectivity. I doubt their "evidence" would stand in a court of law.
My desire is that a factual, unbiased picture be given of what is an less than perfect marina in an imperfect world.

 

[Moodyjim]

Amazing how Messy stirs the blood!
Our winter leaving the boat there a couple of years ago was mixed but when treated with respect Yianni was very helpful. The place was less developed then and most of the problems were to be expected, in my view.
I really don't know why people on this forum want to exchange "ruderies" over such an issue based on personal perception; just agree to disagree kids.
Jim

 

[BobnLesley]

You get what you pay for...

We overwintered there last year and whilst we were at times irritated by the marina, given the price difference on Levkas/Gouvia, we were happy to live with these irritations. My summation to anyone whose enquired this year: 'What was it like/would you recommend it' has been:

If I was in the North Ionian about now and looking for a winter berth, then I'd go to Missalonghi; however, if I was at the south end of the Pelopenesse with the choices of sailing 100 miles to Missalonghi, or 200 miles to Yacht Marine in Marmaris, then I'd be sailing east.

We didn't lift-out, though provided that I was there to monitor the lift, I would have no reservations about them lifting my boat, but as noted by others, you have to be capable of doing any necessary work yourself.

 

[jimbaerselman]

<snip> if I was at the south end of the Pelopenesse with the choices of sailing 100 miles to Missalonghi, or 200 miles to Yacht Marine in Marmaris, then I'd be sailing east.

Or 30nm to Kalamata, or 5m to Pylos . . .

 

[sailaboutvic]

Messilonghi Marina update

Messilonghi Marina update
There been a lot said about this place and I can only tell you all what I have found while we been here .
First lift out .. I seen many lifts out and not once have I seen any problem with them, they all went well without any miss haps I just hope I am not talking too soon our is coming out some time in November.
Cradles .. well build with cross chains
Showers .. we stop using the shower as it seen every time we go into them they are cold , I understand by a few people that the one near the office have a better chance to keeping the hot water warm once sun goes down .
Both toilet’s and shower block are always clean.
WIFI… there is free Wifi but it can be hit or miss some time
Work in the marina. There been no problem on working on your own boat , but I understand if you try and get any outside contractors in to do any work there is a very high price to be paid to the marina which in turn make it very expenses to get work done ,
The staff .. so far we have found them very help full no problems at all .
willem who was brought in as the new the marina manager is outstanding , very help full and goes out of his way to make you feel very welcome, there are rumours he is no longer around , but he is about , not always working as there been some kind of problem with him and the Greek owners
Marina , so we understand there is a on-going court case , lots of rumours what it all about , but as I don’t really know what’s it all over I not going to comment , but it has something to do with the Dutch owners of the marina want to take over the full running of the marina from the Greek side .
The bar… nice and clean and friendly not much selection of food and the prices for drink are a bit on the high side , I would think if he put more food on and brings his prices down he would get lot more people and people wouldn’t walk into town for food and drinks
The town…. About 15 to 20 mins walk ,not really as far as some people make it out to be , you can get almost everything if you look around . plenty of supermarkets , hard where shops , all the phone shops , restaurant , bars and coffee shops . Busses to Athens and best of all it open all the year round .

Chandlers…. There is one in the marina but I have never seen it open , there another one just in the town and the few times I have used it I found him help full and if he hasn’t got it in stock he try and get it for you .
Taxis .. we not used them but one time we did inquire about the cost of a taxi to Athens airport and was told it be 60 Euro’s each when we went to book it we found out it only 60 Euro’s each if he had a full cab we also had two pets in carriers at this point the price went up to over 300 Euro’s and still they didn’t want to know as we needed to leave by 5am , we decline to use the taxi .
We will be there most of the winter returning back to the UK for a short time if any think more developed I will update this posting .

www.bluewatersailor4.webs.com

 

[Caladh]

I concur with Sailaboutvic's recent update of Messolonghi. However me and SWMBO have always used the shoreside showers and, whilst there for a couple of weeks recently in October found cold showers during a wet and cloudy period. We complained, the water heater(s) were turned on, and we then had (very) hot showers again. It is indicative of the Greek problem of not thinking ahead or reacting to circumstances.

We can only hope that the ongoing "management issue" will resolve itself to everyones satisfaction....those that keep their boats there will know what I mean !

 

[BlackSheep1]

hard must be concrete mith

The boats that collapsed were all in cradles!!!!!!

IFTHEY EVER GET A TRAVEL LIFT- Then that will solve one of the problems. Our insurance (PANTS) states that on the hard must be concerete.

A nice place but too many problems, this is only MY oppinion and each of us has to weigh up the pros and con' s then make your decision.

Fair winds

Peter

I am also insured with (pants).Advised by them that they DO NOT stipulate concrete.

 

[sailaboutvic]

We have now spent most of the winter in Messilonghi and have some very interesting things to report , within the next two weeks I will be given a full account of our stay here , I think most of you will find it very interesting . Sorry to be vase but we have our reason why I can't give the report at this time .

We are also planning to send copy to the CA

 

[affinite]

Oh you tease
Bet I can guess whats comming ...

 

[sailinglegend420]

I can't wait, I hope charles_reed is monitoring this post - maybe he will have to eat his words.

We loved it there - until we got lifted out.

 

[Bertramdriver]

Is this the most notorious marina in Greece? Everybody I've met afloat has a story to tell about this place, some horrendous. We went to look at the marina in Sept 11 with a thought of moving across from the Aegean. After spending a hour watching them crane boats ashore I decided not to risk it. But being gluttons for punishment we've decided to spend a few days there in May en transit to Italy. If nothing else I expect to pick up material for my next book.

 

[charles_reed]

I can't wait, I hope charles_reed is monitoring this post - maybe he will have to eat his words.

We loved it there - until we got lifted out.

I am indeed.

IMHO there is no marina in which it is comfortable to be out of the water - so I am unsurprised you didn't enjoy yourselves.

Still you've done the sensible thing - voted with your keel - no-one HAS to stay in Messolonghi.

However more arrive than leave.

 

[BobnLesley]

I would never have suspected that Charles_Reed was such an optimist...

…particularly as you’ve been in Greece for so long too.

"...in the areas of mechanicals and electronics you have a <30% chance of finding competence anywhere..."

They have a special word in Greece to describe those people who can be described as even vaguely trustworthy and competent Yacht-Engineers; they call them “Foreigners”.

Having been there myself, I would agree wholeheartedly with the comments made about Missalonghi: Either do it yourself, or go elsewhere, but to be honest, I’d now be reluctant to give any recommendation for the Preveza area yards either. I’ve always done 99% of the work on our boats and still do, but 18 months ago we bought a boat who’s maintenance/upgrades the previous owner appeared to have undertaken by waving a credit-card at various well known ‘professional’ outfits around the Preveza/Levkas area, rather than with his own toolkit. Having now lived with the boat for long enough to see ‘under the surface’ of these jobs, I’ve been appalled at the amateurish, slipshod and in a couple of instances, downright dangerous way in which they’ve been carried out. Actually, I’ll withdraw the ‘Amateurish’, because as a general rule, the best work that you’re likely to see done on boats in most of the Med. is that done by their owners, who in the main are all amateurs.

A few years ago we were introduced (by a jaundiced and cynical marine-Engineer) to what we came to realise was a very apt and frighteningly true term, relating to boat repairs in the Mediterranean; whilst he was referring specifically to yacht engines, the concept is transferable to other areas of yacht repair too. He referred to “the two weeks and two hundred mile fix.” and it works like this:

1. You arrive in Harbour X with a smoking, rattling, oil and/or water leaking, engine, moor up and track down the local ‘Engineer’.

2. The Engineer visits the following day, correctly diagnoses the problem and gives you a quotation to undertake the necessary repairs; said quotation is a bit over the odds price wise, but he guarantees his work and also promises to prioritise the job; besides, who else are you going to use?

3. You pay a deposit and then somewhere between 1 week and 3 months later, the job gets completed, you pay the balance of the bill and away you go with the engine buzzing happily.

4. Two weeks and two hundred miles later your engine is as bad as ever again, so you limp into Harbour Y and phone up the Engineer in Harbour X, to report the problem’s reoccurrence and remind him of his guarantee.

5. The Engineer expresses his amazement & horror at this unbelievable failure with his work and advises that if you bring the boat back to Harbour X, he’ll certainly fix it straightaway and free of charge. Once you’ve explained that you’re now two hundred miles away and can’t get back to Harbour X, the Engineer offers lots of sympathy, whilst explaining that he can’t possibly travel to Harbour Y and that if you want the work doing under his warranty, then you will have to get the boat back to Harbour X.

6. Having slammed the phone down and stamped around swearing for a bit, you return to the boat, open a beer and wonder what you’re going to do now.

7. Fortunately, whilst you’re sat in the cockpit a pleasant and helpful local chap comes along, that speaks your language and having heard of your woes, mentions that he’s an Engineer and offers to look at your engine. He quickly diagnoses exactly the same problem that you had before and also notes that he’s heard about the Engineer in Harbour X before and knows that he’s an absolute cowboy; whilst he’d correctly diagnosed the fault and quoted accurately for doing a proper repair, all he’d actually done was his usual trick of making a cheap/temporary/bodged fix, relieve you of your cash and sent you on your way; a truly dreadful fellow! He meanwhile is a ‘real’ Engineer and would be prepared to promptly undertake a proper and fully guaranteed repair for only €x,000.

8. Refer to item 3 above! Whilst remembering that the reason why this second Engineer happened so fortuitously to be passing by your boat in Harbour Y and was also able to diagnose the fault so quickly, was because his cousin - who’s the Engineer in harbour X, had telephoned him whilst you were doing item 6 and let him know where to find you. Shortly, say in about 2 weeks/200 miles, you will be reaching reach item 4 once again.

 

[Bertramdriver]

+1 The only really competent mechanic I've found in Greece is Lukas Zissimotis on Aegina. And he loves big engines, especially Detroits. Couple of years ago I kept him company from dusk to dawn (I didn't mean to, it just happened that way) whilst he tried to sort out the mess a mainland mechanic had made of a three Mercruiser installation on a super rib. He did it but then realised that the owner would never pay for the time he spent on the job. He cut the final bill by 50%.
He may have Greek ancestors but was originally Rhodesian-American.

 

[jimbaerselman]

Yanni Varkas, Kalamata. He was once called to Crete by a satisfied Greek customer, prepared to pay for his journey and time (2 days) on top of direct job costs. Yanni was a main Perkins man in one USA state for a decade or so, so he knew all about US service standards.

It is silly to rubbish all Greek yacht service suppliers. Sure, there are pirates around. And less well trained workers need lots of supervision, but they don't tell you they haven't been trained! So the failure rates in unsupervised work are higher in Greece than UK. A bit like UK in the 1970's in fact . . .

So it takes time to find the reliable suppliers. What's new?

 

[charles_reed]

…particularly as you’ve been in Greece for so long too.

"...in the areas of mechanicals and electronics you have a <30% chance of finding competence anywhere..."

They have a special word in Greece to describe those people who can be described as even vaguely trustworthy and competent Yacht-Engineers; they call them “Foreigners”.

Having been there myself, I would agree wholeheartedly with the comments made about Missalonghi: Either do it yourself, or go elsewhere, but to be honest, I’d now be reluctant to give any recommendation for the Preveza area yards either. I’ve always done 99% of the work on our boats and still do, but 18 months ago we bought a boat who’s maintenance/upgrades the previous.

I've found few competent marine engineers anywhere in the UK, France, Greece or in Italy. Having been brought up the hard way by racing 750 Club and rebuilding real vintage cars I seldom let anyone touch my motor - there are only three people who I'd be prepared to recommend from personal experience - two in Brittany and one in Malta (though the latter made some mistakes which I had to rectify).
I have, in the 37 years I've owned and sailed my own boats developed a few little rules:-
1. Avoid anything made by Volvo Marine - apart from the ridiculous cost of their spare parts ALL their designs have at least one little deliberate mistake which you're encouraged to find out.
2. Do not believe the man who comes, listens and tells you he knows exactly what the problem might be - marine troubleshooting is a long, arduous and complex hunt.
3. Develop the ability to anchor, moor and leave under sail alone - myself and the two boys had to spend the rest of the night tied to Aunt Betty in Poole harbour, after a return from France in the Seal 22 when the ebb, lack of wind and the broken reed in the Johnson OB prevented any further progress towards our mooring on the trots off Sherry's Quay.

 

[jimbaerselman]

Nice one Charles!

The marine leisure industry has a crude approach to reliablity and maintainability. Suppliers who deal with resident customers (the local fishermen, local farmers) get plenty of feedback if they make mistakes and don't fix them quick. But even they often work on a "suck it and see" diagnostic process. This is because break down is less critical with lots of locals to help. And suppliers will fix their mistakes with minimum charge if they want to stay in business. If they don't, the locals will avoid them. Which leaves them with only the roaming customers - little comeback, as the early posters in this thread pointed out. And it applies in every country . . .

The guy who is canvassing for your business is looking for work. Guess why . . . too many suppliers? Go find the ones who are too busy to advertise their services . . .

And because of this crude approach to reliablity and maintainability, everyone who cruises further afield should have at least two means of controlling their location - and be capable of using both on all circumstances. It used to be anchor/kedge and sail, with a sweep or long boat in reserve. Nowadays, a motor replaces the sweep and long boat.

There's a good reason the Yachtmaster qualification used to test for an arrival under sail alone.

 

[charles_reed]

Nice one Charles!

The marine leisure industry has a crude approach to reliablity and maintainability. Suppliers who deal with resident customers (the local fishermen, local farmers) get plenty of feedback if they make mistakes and don't fix them quick. But even they often work on a "suck it and see" diagnostic process. This is because break down is less critical with lots of locals to help. And suppliers will fix their mistakes with minimum charge if they want to stay in business. If they don't, the locals will avoid them. Which leaves them with only the roaming customers - little comeback, as the early posters in this thread pointed out. And it applies in every country . . .

The guy who is canvassing for your business is looking for work. Guess why . . . too many suppliers? Go find the ones who are too busy to advertise their services . . .

And because of this crude approach to reliablity and maintainability, everyone who cruises further afield should have at least two means of controlling their location - and be capable of using both on all circumstances. It used to be anchor/kedge and sail, with a sweep or long boat in reserve. Nowadays, a motor replaces the sweep and long boat.

There's a good reason the Yachtmaster qualification used to test for an arrival under sail alone.

Utterly good pragmatic sense - but I'd expect nothing else from an ex aero-engineer/designer!!!

 

[jaba]

Yanni Varkas, Kalamata. He was once called to Crete by a satisfied Greek customer, prepared to pay for his journey and time (2 days) on top of direct job costs. Yanni was a main Perkins man in one USA state for a decade or so, so he knew all about US service standards.

It is silly to rubbish all Greek yacht service suppliers. Sure, there are pirates around. And less well trained workers need lots of supervision, but they don't tell you they haven't been trained! So the failure rates in unsupervised work are higher in Greece than UK. A bit like UK in the 1970's in fact . . .

So it takes time to find the reliable suppliers. What's new?

Il'second Yannis. He is great, very practical and honest. His surname, though, as far as I remember is Vardakas ;-)

 

[charles_reed]

Il'second Yannis. He is great, very practical and honest. His surname, though, as far as I remember is Vardakas ;-)

Agreed Vardakas - he also runs the chandlers, on the other side of the commercial harbour.
He has never, to my knowledge, given a diagnosis or quoted a price, without thorough farther investigation. Unfortunately many appear to think that he doesn't know what he's about.