Mercury V12 600hp Verado Outboard Engine

It would be interesting to post this thread in 2 or 3 years time to see what has developed.
At the moment white diesel on the forecourt is 4 to 5% more expensive than petrol. Who knows what environmental “taxes” will be imposed in the future. If only there were more waterside petrol facilities at the same or near forecourt price, then petrol could become MORE viable in the sub 30 foot market. ).
There are other factors to consider other than miles per gallon.
For instance; noise and smell, I know several people who suffer from mal-de-mar because of diesel fumes. It may well be that “more smoke” like a Second World War battle-cruiser as you leave the marina, time will be up for the older diesels, unless expensive modifications.
Interestingly … I found MapisM’s Brake-Specific Fuel Consumption chart about right and I have twin petrol’s. For me … range is the issue (about 100 miles).
 
The real question is, where is boating going in terms of fuel. I can't see diesel or petrol being viable in say 20 years time. Electric has a huge way to go to replicate the holy grail of both range and power (speed), so are we going back to the 60's where only the very rich and the brave (and maybe watersports enthusiasts with small sports boats) went fast and the rest of us cruised at displacement speeds?
 
madabouttheboat said:
The real question is, where is boating going in terms of fuel. I can't see diesel or petrol being viable in say 20 years time. Electric has a huge way to go to replicate the holy grail of both range and power (speed), so are we going back to the 60's where only the very rich and the brave (and maybe watersports enthusiasts with small sports boats) went fast and the rest of us cruised at displacement speeds?
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Yes possibly we are.

Perhaps an increase in sailboats with a small rib on the back for watersports?

For me - time afloat is the thing - I don't have enough of it - so I like to get where I am going - plus whizzing about is fun, However I also can't afford to run 800hp engines - even now on reduced price fuel, so when it's at road prices I really won't! I also cant afford V8 petrol or 600hp outboard fuel prices......

But I could perhaps afford to run a decent (30' perhaps) sailboat (a catamaran would be my preference) and then a 4 or 5 meter rib with a large outboard for waterskiing would be nice - the problem with that is berthing - if you have a berth and pay for a 9m sailboat, you can hardly tie a further 5m of dinghy to it - I think the marina would moan, and something like that is too big to mount on a davit behind really....... So again - is that the answer?

Apart from the super-rich (and my definition of super rich is probably a lot less rich than others definition) I wonder if this will actually create a return to the 1970's thing where a 24 foot boat was a "big" boat, and a 50hp outboard a "big" outboard? I remember going on the canals as a kid - in a 20' Buckingham with an 8hp Yamaha and we still had fun - it was just a very different fun.

Perhaps we'll see high efficiency ultra slim hull(s) with a pod above for people (a bit like this)?
Seaski.jpg


Or even

solar-electric-catamaran-soel-senses-48.jpg


I can see these increasing in popularity ( not just Solar - battery / diesel hybrid ) but the general concept of a multihull, travelling at low speed and then a fast backup vessel (rib / jetski etc) for watersports.

Don't know the price of this boat and how it compares to it's conventional bretheren?
 
moresparks said:
It would be interesting to post this thread in 2 or 3 years time to see what has developed.
At the moment white diesel on the forecourt is 4 to 5% more expensive than petrol. Who knows what environmental “taxes” will be imposed in the future. If only there were more waterside petrol facilities at the same or near forecourt price, then petrol could become MORE viable in the sub 30 foot market. ).
There are other factors to consider other than miles per gallon.
For instance; noise and smell, I know several people who suffer from mal-de-mar because of diesel fumes. It may well be that “more smoke” like a Second World War battle-cruiser as you leave the marina, time will be up for the older diesels, unless expensive modifications.
Interestingly … I found MapisM’s Brake-Specific Fuel Consumption chart about right and I have twin petrol’s. For me … range is the issue (about 100 miles).
Click to expand...

My range (with 25% safety margin) is around 100 miles as well. That takes me to Brixham or similar to the East. It could also take me across the channel if I went in company with another boat.

It isn't really about fuel costs but rather, the total cost of ownership. I do my own servicing and will spend around £100 on oil, filters and bits required. That's all I need.

A breakdown/equipment failure can occur at any time of course but in my 5 years of outboard boating that has never occurred (and engines range from brand new to 14 years old).

I don't think petrol will become more available any time soon but the potential shift away from diesel may stimulate greater demand for petrol powered boats where there is good availability.

Yes the smell!! its not particularly nice when someone runs up twin diesels and proceeds to fumigate a marina.....
 
Rappey said:
I know someone with a 1500hp caterpillar. At a good crusing speed it uses about 59gph, 265 l/hr.
I could buy myself a really nice boat for what it costs to fill his tank.
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The boat I work aboard has triple MTUs, 2,500hp each. At a 32 knot cruise each one uses 350lph for a combined burn of 1050 litres / hour.

The Pershing 140 does about 1400 lph at the same cruise speed.
 
I’ll take some good videos and data from my
Boats that have the mpi and the new merc outboard, this year. Think most will be amazed at how far things have come. Especially with the outboard. My main point in this thread, was that mercury should be applauded for what they are doing really. Didn’t plan for it to get into a petrol Vs diesel thing. That was brought up by another member. All I tried to do was to give real life info from actual boats and engines I own. Surely better than any googled info. Petrol engines have their place. No doubt. The ridiculous fast boat I have that will near touch on a genuine 70mph...just wouldn’t have a diesel in it. Suppose my point was that too. The fletcher 19 I have...just wouldn’t have a diesel in it either. Petrol outboard or inboard for weight saving really. So petrol has its place for sure.
Back when my fletcher was made in 2002, it came with a 100hp yamaha early 4 stroke. Performance was poor and lazy compared to the inboard. This new 115 mercury is a different ball game. 45 mph full throttle and cruising at 25 mph nearly 2 miles a litre is ridiculous from it. I’m sure most just admit that much perhaps.
Anyway, tempers fray and all that. Covid is a bugger for all this. Throw in winter blues and no boating...jeez.
 
QBhoy said:
I’ll take some good videos and data from my
Boats that have the mpi and the new merc outboard, this year. Think most will be amazed at how far things have come. Especially with the outboard. My main point in this thread, was that mercury should be applauded for what they are doing really. Didn’t plan for it to get into a petrol Vs diesel thing. That was brought up by another member. All I tried to do was to give real life info from actual boats and engines I own. Surely better than any googled info. Petrol engines have their place. No doubt. The ridiculous fast boat I have that will near touch on a genuine 70mph...just wouldn’t have a diesel in it. Suppose my point was that too. The fletcher 19 I have...just wouldn’t have a diesel in it either. Petrol outboard or inboard for weight saving really. So petrol has its place for sure.
Back when my fletcher was made in 2002, it came with a 100hp yamaha early 4 stroke. Performance was poor and lazy compared to the inboard. This new 115 mercury is a different ball game. 45 mph full throttle and cruising at 25 mph nearly 2 miles a litre is ridiculous from it. I’m sure most just admit that much perhaps.
Anyway, tempers fray and all that. Covid is a bugger for all this. Throw in winter blues and no boating...jeez.
Click to expand...


Much of this is true Qbhoy - 99% of boats designed with 70mph in mind will be petrol. Point is, posting images of your fuel burn in that boat isn’t relevant unless you can post images of the exact same boat fitted with a comparable diesel on the same day, same speed, same load etc..... - which is what MBY did with the triple XO test.

There are undoubtably many many boats where petrol is simply a no-brainier, small fast cheap boats it’s a must have, even up to the low 20’ mark it still makes sense - but rapidly fails to make sense after that.

The reason people were getting upset was that that wasn’t what you were saying - you said petrol was more EFFICIENT, which it isn’t.

If you are saying in small boats it’s more SUITABLE then you have a totally different, and actually very justifiable and reasonable argument........ certainly when weight etc comes into it.

I would consider a small (under 23’ ???) sports cuddy / cruiser with a 150 MPi latest tech type outboard, as it wouldn’t cripple me, and you are unlikely to stray a million miles from a base, plus you may well trail it so can fill to the brim at a garage en-route...... All these things are true, it doesn’t make it more efficient than a diesel, but possibly it does make it a better option.


Purely from a personal position though, having done the 26’ cruiser thing, with a thirsty onboard, struggling to get fuel anywhere, Jerry cans and rubbish range.... my next boat will be diesel, unless petrol becomes cheaper and more available, and not sure that will happen any time soon....
 
madabouttheboat said:
Some do!
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I remember a company called Panther buying the moulds for these off Fletcher and doing this diesel.

It’s an odd boat really, great running costs and much more range than the petrol, but I suspect a bit sluggish, and just how far would you want to go in one - I’ve seen them as a dayboat with some dry storage and a private loo rather than a cruiser (I know you CAN but surely a B&B is a better option? ).

Does anyone know if that engine would get that boat to decent water sports speeds or is it really just a day cruiser...?
 
ontheplane said:
I remember a company called Panther buying the moulds for these off Fletcher and doing this diesel.

It’s an odd boat really, great running costs and much more range than the petrol, but I suspect a bit sluggish, and just how far would you want to go in one - I’ve seen them as a dayboat with some dry storage and a private loo rather than a cruiser (I know you CAN but surely a B&B is a better option? ).

Does anyone know if that engine would get that boat to decent water sports speeds or is it really just a day cruiser...?
Click to expand...

The diesel fitted to the Fletcher 19 Sports Cruiser was a mercury 120 hp (a truck engine or similar). I think it had a leisurely performance but of course (being diesel!!) had a great range.

I agree with the 23ft max limit on petrol engines - I wouldn't want a bigger petrol powered boat or bigger engine so the 200 verado on mine is "acceptable" in terms of cost. performance, range. i.e. it ticks all my boxes. Topping up from petrol stations is just OK, not too much effort.

Most of my friends have petrol sterndrive boats and I never hear the end of risers, gimbals, bellows talk. I just change the oil and filters mostly, after all I like boating not fixing them!
 
ontheplane said:
Much of this is true Qbhoy - 99% of boats designed with 70mph in mind will be petrol. Point is, posting images of your fuel burn in that boat isn’t relevant unless you can post images of the exact same boat fitted with a comparable diesel on the same day, same speed, same load etc..... - which is what MBY did with the triple XO test.

There are undoubtably many many boats where petrol is simply a no-brainier, small fast cheap boats it’s a must have, even up to the low 20’ mark it still makes sense - but rapidly fails to make sense after that.

The reason people were getting upset was that that wasn’t what you were saying - you said petrol was more EFFICIENT, which it isn’t.

If you are saying in small boats it’s more SUITABLE then you have a totally different, and actually very justifiable and reasonable argument........ certainly when weight etc comes into it.

I would consider a small (under 23’ ???) sports cuddy / cruiser with a 150 MPi latest tech type outboard, as it wouldn’t cripple me, and you are unlikely to stray a million miles from a base, plus you may well trail it so can fill to the brim at a garage en-route...... All these things are true, it doesn’t make it more efficient than a diesel, but possibly it does make it a better option.


Purely from a personal position though, having done the 26’ cruiser thing, with a thirsty onboard, struggling to get fuel anywhere, Jerry cans and rubbish range.... my next boat will be diesel, unless petrol becomes cheaper and more available, and not sure that will happen any time soon....
Click to expand...
Agree with many of the points you in particular made. But I suppose, I’m sure I said “as efficient” like for like or not even viable in some cases. As you say...there isn’t a diesel equivalent that would do what the mpi in the Chase will do...or what the outboard on the fletcher will do. So horses for courses I suppose. I should have also said that petrol is a viable or more suited alternative for some boats. Like mine for example.
But all in all, no doubt modern petrol engines have their place. Perhaps more and more as time goes on.
I’m not an anti diesel man by any means. It’s my trade !
The Princess Fly we have with the twin Tamd61as. Would I want great big outboards or petrol inboards one that...of course not. Definitely not.
So all in all, my point was that modern petrol engines are suited better to some boats. Of that, I don’t think there is a doubt. Maintenance costs and internals perhaps might add to their purpose.
I also never suggested that this particular v12 thing was better than a diesel alternative on fuel. Not once...but some suggested I did. Some were also just plain nasty in their reply. All I’ve tried to do is give real life details of what I’ve found. Instead of just looking up on the internet.
Anyway. I’d urge anyone who has 5 mins to look into what mercury are doing these days. Especially with the outboards of a size that we would and will commonly see around the marina. Amazing what they have and are doing. Volvo Penta too. They, like mercury have ditched the old GM petrol units for in hoise made units...all with efficiency, emissions and diesel alternative power in mind. I don’t suppose they are doing that for no reason perhaps ?
 
Hot Property said:
The diesel fitted to the Fletcher 19 Sports Cruiser was a mercury 120 hp (a truck engine or similar). I think it had a leisurely performance but of course (being diesel!!) had a great range.

I agree with the 23ft max limit on petrol engines - I wouldn't want a bigger petrol powered boat or bigger engine so the 200 verado on mine is "acceptable" in terms of cost. performance, range. i.e. it ticks all my boxes. Topping up from petrol stations is just OK, not too much effort.

Most of my friends have petrol sterndrive boats and I never hear the end of risers, gimbals, bellows talk. I just change the oil and filters mostly, after all I like boating not fixing them!
Click to expand...
That’s correct about panther HP. The manifolds etc on GM engines are consonance parts I suppose. In sea water. Every 4/5 years at about £500-600 a set. Not a great deal of suffering when you consider how cheap they are otherwise perhaps
 
ontheplane said:
I remember a company called Panther buying the moulds for these off Fletcher and doing this diesel.

It’s an odd boat really, great running costs and much more range than the petrol, but I suspect a bit sluggish, and just how far would you want to go in one - I’ve seen them as a dayboat with some dry storage and a private loo rather than a cruiser (I know you CAN but surely a B&B is a better option? ).

Does anyone know if that engine would get that boat to decent water sports speeds or is it really just a day cruiser...?
Click to expand...
The 1.7d in these packs a wee punch to be fair. Mid 30’s achieved on these for sure. But the engine itself came in for some bother. Timing belts and turbos were its downfall. It’s the Isuzu based engine found or was found in Vauxhall Corsa and Astra’s etc etc.
 
Something to cheer you up Qbhoy!


September last year on our way to Yarmouth from Hamble. Pretty choppy, but if you went fast enough (don't mention the fuel consumption on my Verado!) then the ride became more tolerable.

Other, more sensible friends of mine stayed home!
 
Last edited:
Hot Property said:
Something to cheer you up Qbhoy!


September last year on our way to Yarmouth from Hamble. Pretty choppy, but if you went fast enough (don't mention the fuel consumption on my Verado!) then the ride became more tolerable.

Other, more sensible friends of mine stayed home!
Click to expand...
Loved that HP. Definitely cheered me up. What is that ? A selva or galleon or similar ?
 
madabouttheboat said:
Whats 'the Chase'?
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The boat I have with the v8 mpi. Campion Chase performance edition. The one that came to the U.K. back when they made them, as a tribute to the Chase heritage. They still make a few Chase models...but this performance edition was a bit of a special thing. Can’t think of another 18ft high spec boat that style that will do what this wee thing will. Lucky to have her. One of the other boats is the fletcher 19. That did come with the 120hp 1.7 diesel in it. But as mentioned, it lacks around 10 mph on the outboard version I have with the 115 merc.
 
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