Medical training recommendations?

[gfbalduc]

In my quest to get ready for some long-distance sailing, the job list related to boat's preparation is finally getting near the end. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif In a couple of weeks' time I'll be off to a couple of months of shakedown cruising from Tyrrenian to Adriatic via Greece and Croatia. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

With the boat hopefully ready, next winter will be devoted to "personal" preparation, and this will include some training for myself and SWMBO.

I'm quite uncertain about medical training : the classical RYA 1-day "First aid" courses seem to be addressed exactly at that: administering first aid to a casualty while waiting for rescue professionals to arrive on the scene.

This is obviously not the scenario I need, which is more oriented to being able to provide a broad range of medical aid while far from help (possibly with the support of a doctor via long-distance comms), from diagnosing ilnesses to (touch wood) stabilise the victim of a serious accident until land can be reached or a pickup can be organised mid-ocean.

I found precious little training available along these lines (mostly stuff aimed at mountaineers/explorers); it's a possibility, although expensive and maybe even exceeding my requirements/capabilities.

I've also seen some 2-3 days training packages (like one proposed by UKSA) which put together survival and medical help, and seem specifically oriented to blue-water sailors, but they seem too short to possibly cover the subject in any depth.

Has anybody any practical positive/negative experience to share about availabe offerings?

TIA,

 

[Benbow]

The classic book is Ship captain's medical guide

There are courses based on this, I know that Warsash does them as 'stand-alone' courses. I have not done this myself, but have sent people on it and they have come back happy and feeling much more confident.

 

[pat_detente]

Not sure if this is much help - but there is a good book called "Where there is no doctor" which other yottie friends of ours had. we never managed to find one, but I think it would have the sort of info you would be looking for. Sorry - have no idea who the publisher is or if it is still in print.

 

[Roberto]

I also read about this book and eventually bought it, but imho it is not too suitable for the purpose, it is more aimed to the ngo worker in far off places having to deal with native pregnancies, body parasites, etc rather than a yotty equipped with radio or inmarsat..
Second the ship s captain medical guide, although it often assumes having in one's boat a completelky equipped ER

A couple of book in French have been found very useful: Dr. Chauve "Guide de la medicine a distance" (or something similar, two volumes), the Dr usually holds seminars for long distance sailors and racers

 

[jhr]

Agree with Roberto that "Where there is no Doctor" is aimed mainly at people dealing with Tropical problems in remote parts of the World, but it's still a good little book.

Published by Macmillan Education and yes - it's still in print, and on Amazon.

 

[gfbalduc]

[ QUOTE ]
There are courses based on this, I know that Warsash does them as 'stand-alone' courses. I have not done this myself, but have sent people on it and they have come back happy and feeling much more confident.

[/ QUOTE ]
What courses are you referring to? The one-day first-aid, or the 4/5 day medical-proficiency-at-sea ones?
And are they open to private individuals? From the prerequisites, they seem to be "professional mariners only".

 

[Benbow]

They were 4-5 day courses, and yes they were professional sailors. However, I would suggest you give Warsash a ring, I would be surprised if they are not flexible. The courses are run on a 1-off basis with very small groups of learners.

 

[alant]

The old course was called 'Ships Captains Medical' in line with the book which is still called the same.

Intended for 'Ocean' category skippers & teaches you to be a surgeon in 1 week. Extremely good course, but you will need the full recommended medical kit to deal with casualty.

 

[alant]

Ships Captains Medical can be downloaded from the MCA website.

 

[lille_bee]

[ QUOTE ]

This is obviously not the scenario I need, which is more oriented to being able to provide a broad range of medical aid while far from help (possibly with the support of a doctor via long-distance comms), from diagnosing ilnesses to (touch wood) stabilise the victim of a serious accident until land can be reached or a pickup can be organised mid-ocean.


[/ QUOTE ]
That's a tall order indeed!
It takes years to train & learn to do all that, as any paramedic or doctor will tell you...
And Murphy's Law states that whatever you're prepared for, you can be sure that it won't happen, but what will happen is what hou haven't prepared for...!

 

[webcraft]

Don't you think you might end up over-prepared?

There is just no way you can cover every eventuality. If you want it to be 100% bombproof then maybe you will never be ready to go.

RYA 1-day first aid, a good book and a chat with your GP will see you right. Add a couple of EPIRBs, some strong analgesics and a couple of broad spectrum antibiotics and you'll be as prepared as you possibly can be. Thus prepared the possibility of removing your own appendix at sea should never arise.

If you still want to throw money at Murphy and his laws and you have the space then you might want to invest in one of these new idiot-proof defibrillators, as a heart attack can happen to anyone anywhere.

- N

 

[gfbalduc]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't you think you might end up over-prepared?

[/ QUOTE ]
Absolutely!! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I'm being paranoid, I know, but also preparation is part of the fun, innit??

What I would like to achieve is to be able to perform basic tasks like an injection or mending a wound, or correctly reporting symptoms to a faraway doctor, not performing brain surgery on the chart table!

If worse comes to the worst, the Ship Captain's Medical Guide has a chapter on burial-at-sea..... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[BrendanS]

The only way to get experience of how to give injections or stitching wounds is practice, and the only way you get that is hands on. You are not going to get that on a even a 5 day course.

What are you going to be carrying with you that needs injecting, and how are you going to decide what to inject. Have you considered why it takes about 10 years to become a GP?

One of the reasons for first aid course being purely in stabilising the patient, and not administering treatment or making a diagnosis, other than very basic.

 

[gfbalduc]

All true, no discussion here.

But still, ocean-sailing is different from coastal or short passages: help can be several days away, and while it is possible to get a doctor's advice by Satphone or SSB, one needs to be able to perform what the doctor advises.

 

[Sixpence]

It's certainly not intended for cruising skippers , but a week long course with St Johns ambulance on a first aid course , will at least give a bit more than just a basic help , I've done the course and it's very useful , but don't expect to be able to do brain surgery at the end

 

[BrendanS]

Start reading alot. I'm not sure any courses that take less than weeks will give you the type of information you seem to want. and even then I'd be cautious about applying that knowledge. Most of this type of information is absorbed over far greater periods of time. You can cram some in a few weeks, but general medical knowledge is usually absorbed around people who already have the knowledge.
I can sort of understand your wish to know more, but really think you won't learn a great deal from any course measured in days

 

[Benbow]

I am not sure that I entirely agree with those suggesting that you can learn nothing useful on a short course.

Where you end-up after a course will, naturally, depend a lot on where you started from. However, a general understanding of how the human body works plus an idea of what in broad terms can go wrong with each system is of enormous value in understanding what might have gone wrong. And it will make it much more possible to manage a patient with help from a book or an expert on the radio.

Comments such as

And Murphy's Law states that whatever you're prepared for, you can be sure that it won't happen, but what will happen is what hou haven't prepared for...!

Are I think exactly wrong, you will not memorise a series of instructions for each possible ailment, you will learn broad principles and how to interpret what you are seeing in the patient and in a book plus some practical techniques. An intelligent person armed with a basic understanding, a bit of common sense and good observational skills can make a huge difference.

There are 1,000s of examples of stupidity killing injured or sick people, examples of understanding saving people are harder to tie down but they are of course the other side of the same coin.

Whether or not such a course is overkill is a personal decision. I would expect you to find it interesting and, as long as you understand its limitations, it should make you a more useful skipper.

Just my personal take. Good luck!

 

[TigaWave]

The only thing a doctor and paramedic have ever suggested might be usefull and could keep someone alive after a trauma was being able to give fluid via saline drip. Shock and fluid loss can be treated simply. There are paramedics who will give this specialised training, and some doctors possibly. We found one who was the GP for an offshore racing team a few years ago.

Other usefull stuff (again advised by the experts) was some serious large burns gel packs you can put a whole limb in, retains moisture again helps with shock, available from St johns website, and the little tubes that hold your tongue out of the way if you're unconscious. A few suture kits all packed and sterile complete with needles thread etc.

Also a range of Antibiotics, and how and when to use them details.

But start with your GP they may point you in the right direction.

 

[alant]

"The only way to get experience of how to give injections or stitching wounds is practice, and the only way you get that is hands on. You are not going to get that on a even a 5 day course."

Agreed. However, much better than a basic First Aid course. We were interrogated at length individually by a medical consultant on our knowlege + long written paper + practiced stitching up & giving injections (using chickens or 'plastic' flesh). Could I do it for real??

"some strong analgesics and a couple of broad spectrum antibiotics and you'll be as prepared as you possibly can be."

- this is the overall impression I picked up from the course, most treatments consisted of giving an appropriate analgesic (asprin to morphine) + an antibiotic of some persuation. Much like a GP really.

My main shock was getting a piece of paper, which allowed me to get morphine from my local Boot's chemist (confirmed in my local branch).

Oh by the way, if you get it wrong, the Ships' Captains Medical Book, has several versions of the burial service at the back!! Best be prepared. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

 

[Doug_Stormforce]

Ther are 2 MCA copurses that cover the araes you wnat.

Firstly the Mediacl First Aid Aboard Ship- a 3 day more advanced First Aid Course that replaced the old First Aid at sea.

Beyond that there is a further 5 day course Medaical Care aboard ship, this replaces the old ships Capitains Medical and effectly trains you to deal with every sort of medical emergency at sea wheen help is not at hand and may even be out of radio range.

Both of theses courses are aimed at professionals so do have a certain element of exem passing within them but this is the next bestthing 2 having a doctor on board