Med flotilla deals?

[ylop]

Since it looks like by this summer we might have reached some sort of normality we are seriously considering a charter this summer. Having never chartered before the advice seems to steer us towards flotillas - that seems to push us towards the Med. I'm not overly sociable and certainly wouldn't be doing it to go out for dinner with 20 strangers each night, but I can see the advantage of having their support boat around if there are any issues (having once wasted a day on a french holiday waiting for dead hire care to be recovered I don't want to repeat that at the cost of chartering).

this is a bit of an experiment before embarking on actual yacht ownership (I've owned boats most of my adult life - but never anything big enough to sleep on for more than 1 night, I have day skipper and all of the motley crew are Comp Crew qualified).

I've trotted off to the web to check prices and availability and it seems that most places are vague about both. In an AirBnB world I expected to see real time data! I don't really want to hunt dozens of sites and discuss requirements with numerous suppliers and then get spam every year from them. Is there a better way? I'm Scottish so this imposes two restrictions - I'm looking for as an affordable way to do it as possible and we don't like it too hot. We are likely to be looking last week june or first in july. Turkey looks cheapest - but presumably hottest? Croatia appeals but seems comparatively expensive.

Is everything decent already booked?
Flights are more expensive than I expected, is that just airlines not opening up yet?
Are there companies that make this easy and relatively affordable?
Are there areas outside the med that make sense for people who are quite happy to holiday in the UK normally. We haven't really considered UK charter because - whilst we like the UK weather we don't want to book a week and be rained on or marina bound due to winds and that seems more likely here. Its fine if we own the boat - but not if I've just spent a forture renting one.

I'm sure others must have mulled these points at least pre-covid and wonder if post covidanything feels different?

 

[dunedin]

Boating ain’t cheap - and decent charter holidays ain’t cheap. So need to be prepared to spend. But “you only live once” so a good way to blow some holiday cash.
And yes a flotilla is probably ideal for first time - more support, and it is rarely enforced socialising so can keep to own preference.

Possibly somebody like Latesail might help you find something suitable at a fair price (used in the past successfully, but was some years ago)

 

[jonbclarke]

Try the guys at Nisos Prices | Nisos Yacht Charter

Nice relaxed company, good boats and reasonable (live) pricing.

No relation ?

 

[Laysula]

Is it just you who is not overly sociable or your whole crew? Perhaps some of them may prefer to be sociable whilst you eat and relax more quietly.

 

[mjcoon]

this is a bit of an experiment before embarking on actual yacht ownership (I've owned boats most of my adult life - but never anything big enough to sleep on for more than 1 night, I have day skipper and all of the motley crew are Comp Crew qualified).

You haven't detailed your crew, but I gather they make it unlikely that you could claim to be newly-weds who would prefer to eat on your own...

Haven't been back to Turkey for a while (it used to feature on our trips; see www.mjcoon.plus.com/page38) but often there the jetty would be owned by the restaurant, or it was the only one anyway, so everyone who ate ashore was there. And sometimes the lead boat "hostie" would take orders in advance so food preparation is not overwhelmed.

Maybe you should tell us what your budget is...

 

[Skellum]

Flotilla holidays normally come with the flight and transfer to the marina included so saves you the hassle of trying to arrange the component parts of your holiday seperately. They normally allow the flexibility for you to do your own thing in the evenings so I shouldn’t get too hung up on that. As you have RYA dayskipper though there is no reason why you shouldn’t be able to do bareboat although you need to arrange your own flight and transfer. The charter companies normally take a lot of bookings this time of year, especially at the large boat shows. There are normally discounts for early booking, more than 1 week etc.

 

[ylop]

You haven't detailed your crew, but I gather they make it unlikely that you could claim to be newly-weds who would prefer to eat on your own...

Well, people get married at any age! But we would be a family of 4, including 14 and 18 yr old (probably last holiday all together).

Maybe you should tell us what your budget is...

Well back of the envelope rough number I was hoping flights, transfer, charter etc would be under £4K. That's the sort of mental figure I've used for ski trips in the past - £1K per person, and then by some careful shopping around I could usually get it closer to 700-800 per head.

Try the guys at Nisos Prices | Nisos Yacht Charter
Nice relaxed company, good boats and reasonable (live) pricing.

Thanks. Certainly, the live availability is useful. I guess perhaps my budget is in the wrong place - if the cheapest actual price for a Bavaria 32 for a week is £3135 for bareboat and £400 extra for "mini flotilla". Flights from Edinburgh to the med are looking at £1k, perhaps a little less from Manchester. I've seen other pricing at more like £2300-2500 for that size boat those weeks - but of course, no availability, have we just left it too late or do those sort of deals never really exist (or have hidden other costs).

Possibly somebody like Latesail might help you find something suitable at a fair price (used in the past successfully, but was some years ago)

Ah thanks - I'll take a look.

Is it just you who is not overly sociable or your whole crew? Perhaps some of them may prefer to be sociable whilst you eat and relax more quietly.

I'm probably the social one! However one of the driving forces for seriously considering ownership on W of Scotland is the ability to get away from it all and other people. Its not an absolute deal breaker but I've seen it implied that some companies are much more focused on that aspect than others. I guess my reason for mentioning it was that a great social flotilla was not the reason for thinking flotilla.

 

[ylop]

Flotilla holidays normally come with the flight and transfer to the marina included so saves you the hassle of trying to arrange the component parts of your holiday seperately. They normally allow the flexibility for you to do your own thing in the evenings so I shouldn’t get too hung up on that. As you have RYA dayskipper though there is no reason why you shouldn’t be able to do bareboat although you need to arrange your own flight and transfer. The charter companies normally take a lot of bookings this time of year, especially at the large boat shows. There are normally discounts for early booking, more than 1 week etc.

Not sure if its a covid thing, where we are looking or what - but virtually all are book your own flights anyway.
Yes I was surprised that places seemed to be quite so booked up as I expected this was a Boat Show season thing - and so they'd be biting our hands off to take bookings since most boat shows are not running normally...

 

[bedouin]

I think Flotilla holidays can be a great way to go. You have the benefit of an organized itinerary. Help and local knowledge on hand when you arrive at the harbour for the night and support should anything go wrong. Well worth having for you first experience sailing and probably reduces the stress on the skipper no end.

You can socialise or not as much as you like in the evenings but it may be the teenagers like having other young people around,

 

[Skellum]

Not sure if its a covid thing, where we are looking or what - but virtually all are book your own flights anyway.
Yes I was surprised that places seemed to be quite so booked up as I expected this was a Boat Show season thing - and so they'd be biting our hands off to take bookings since most boat shows are not running normally...

Have you had a look at Neilson Active Holidays? They do all inclusive packages, but their only Flotilla destination this year appears to be Ionian. In fairness I think that the difficulty of getting UK Flot Crew to legally work in the EU since Brexit is a problem for operators.

 

[dunedin]

Not sure if its a covid thing, where we are looking or what - but virtually all are book your own flights anyway.
Yes I was surprised that places seemed to be quite so booked up as I expected this was a Boat Show season thing - and so they'd be biting our hands off to take bookings since most boat shows are not running normally...

I expect there may be a lot of folk with previously booked holidays for 2020 /2021 who rolled forward the dates due to Covid?

Me thinks your budget expectation of £4k for a family would have been ambitious 5 years ago, particularly with extra costs of flights from Scotland (as you imply). Best value doing 2 weeks not 1 week - as can get 13 day holiday rather than 6 days, for same cost of flights, transfers etc

 

[Frogmogman]

The first sailing holiday I took my family on was on a flotilla out of Poros back in 2003. My daughters were 10 and 11 years old, and I was determined that their first experience of “big boat” sailing would be one that they’d enjoy (a couple of my cousins were completely put off sailing by their first experience, white knuckles in howling wind and pouring rain in the Channel).

It was a brilliant holiday; the kids found children of their own age to play with, and we made some great friends on a couple of the boats, with whom we still exchange Xmas cards. The organised fun (of which I’d say I’m not generally a big fan) was all quite low key, and the lead crew were charming and helpful.

We have done many bare-boat charters since then, but all look back fondly on the year we did a flotilla. I particularly enjoyed knowing that the lead boat would have sorted out the places in harbour, so one could amble in late in the day in the knowledge that you had a berth, and they’d be waiting on the quay to take your lines and do any paperwork.

The company we did the flotilla with were called SetSail, but I don’t think they exist any more.

 

[ylop]

I expect there may be a lot of folk with previously booked holidays for 2020 /2021 who rolled forward the dates due to Covid?

Ah of course...

Me thinks your budget expectation of £4k for a family would have been ambitious 5 years ago, particularly with extra costs of flights from Scotland (as you imply). Best value doing 2 weeks not 1 week - as can get 13 day holiday rather than 6 days, for same cost of flights, transfers etc

yeah I'm definitely unlikely to stretch to 2 weeks although I get the point that cost per day is then more efficient. I'm not sure that Scotland is making the flights that much more expensive - I did have a quick look from the London airports and it was still more than I expected given the noise the travel industry is making I assumed they would be desperate for bums on seats.

interestingly jonbclarke's link doesn't give flotilla prices (its a "contact us") but their bareboat prices, which are based on live availability seem to be substantially cheaper. So what are the gotcha's when booking that you don't realise are expensive but not included? e.g. I've noticed some places charge extra for an o/board for a tender, paddleboards are often rentable, presumably, some places might include fuel/gas and others won't, are people sneaking in sneaky silly cleaning charges etc?

Skellum, I looked at Nelson, and that's just about the most expensive way to book a holiday - for the cost of a Nelson flotilla for 4 including travel from Ed etc. I might as well just buy a boat keep it in a marina on the Clyde for a year and sell it - I'd probably have more £ in my pocket. I hadn't considered that they might have a Brexit issue with staff - that would be another sensible explanation for lack of supply.

 

[Skellum]

The first sailing holiday I took my family on was on a flotilla out of Poros back in 2003. My daughters were 10 and 11 years old, and I was determined that their first experience of “big boat” sailing would be one that they’d enjoy (a couple of my cousins were completely put off sailing by their first experience, white knuckles in howling wind and pouring rain in the Channel).

It was a brilliant holiday; the kids found children of their own age to play with, and we made some great friends on a couple of the boats, with whom we still exchange Xmas cards. The organised fun (of which I’d say I’m not generally a big fan) was all quite low key, and the lead crew were charming and helpful.

We have done many bare-boat charters since then, but all look back fondly on the year we did a flotilla. I particularly enjoyed knowing that the lead boat would have sorted out the places in harbour, so one could amble in late in the day in the knowledge that you had a berth, and they’d be waiting on the quay to take your lines and do any paperwork.

The company we did the flotilla with were called SetSail, but I don’t think they exist any more.

I used to work for Setsail - a small family company who did flotillas in Greece, Croatia and Turkey. They packed up quite a few years ago now when the owner, who was a great guy, retired.

 

[Skellum]

Ah of course...

yeah I'm definitely unlikely to stretch to 2 weeks although I get the point that cost per day is then more efficient. I'm not sure that Scotland is making the flights that much more expensive - I did have a quick look from the London airports and it was still more than I expected given the noise the travel industry is making I assumed they would be desperate for bums on seats.

interestingly jonbclarke's link doesn't give flotilla prices (its a "contact us") but their bareboat prices, which are based on live availability seem to be substantially cheaper. So what are the gotcha's when booking that you don't realise are expensive but not included? e.g. I've noticed some places charge extra for an o/board for a tender, paddleboards are often rentable, presumably, some places might include fuel/gas and others won't, are people sneaking in sneaky silly cleaning charges etc?

Skellum, I looked at Nelson, and that's just about the most expensive way to book a holiday - for the cost of a Nelson flotilla for 4 including travel from Ed etc. I might as well just buy a boat keep it in a marina on the Clyde for a year and sell it - I'd probably have more £ in my pocket. I hadn't considered that they might have a Brexit issue with staff - that would be another sensible explanation for lack of supply.

In terms of extras - You will need to pay to top up your diesel at the end of the charter. There is normally an extra charge at the start that covers the cost of the end cleaning, towels & bedding, your cooking gas, outboard and the transit log / boat papers. This might be already included in the price of a flotilla. Stuff like paddle boards, spinnakers etc are normally extra.
In Croatia there is a daily tourist tax of 1 euro pp and if staying in Marinas these are usually expensive. In Greece and Turkey (and some parts of Croatia) you can often park for free if it’s on a pontoon/ quay that is operated by the adjacent restaurant on the assumption that you eat there.

 

[mjcoon]

I used to work for Setsail - a small family company who did flotillas in Greece, Croatia and Turkey. They packed up quite a few years ago now when the owner, who was a great guy, retired.

Ah, the list of trips to which I posted a link back in post #5 includes ~12 links (one per trip) to Setsail's web site. It is, as you say, no more and I should edit out the stale links. Maybe we met over that decade? However a sailing holiday company with connections to Setsail is Sunscape (www.sunscapeyachting.co.uk/) which still exists, and another associated company is Seafarer Sailing

 

[Frogmogman]

Ah, the list of trips to which I posted a link back in post #5 includes ~12 links (one per trip) to Setsail's web site. It is, as you say, no more and I should edit out the stale links. Maybe we met over that decade? However a sailing holiday company with connections to Setsail is Sunscape (www.sunscapeyachting.co.uk/) which still exists, and another associated company is Seafarer Sailing

Interesting. I note that the Poros ones are down As Sunscape/Greek Sails. I’d seen that Greek Sails boats are where SetSail used to operate from, and I recall that back in 2003 the SetSail boats all actually belonged to a local firm, so maybe that was Greek Sails even then.

 

[Skellum]

Poros flotillas were before my time as we were doing our Greek flotillas in Skiathos when I was with them, but the name Greek Sails rings a bell. And yes MJC they used to be connected with Sunscape / Seafarer but went their separate ways.

 

[bedouin]

Interesting. I note that the Poros ones are down As Sunscape/Greek Sails. I’d seen that Greek Sails boats are where SetSail used to operate from, and I recall that back in 2003 the SetSail boats all actually belonged to a local firm, so maybe that was Greek Sails even then.

Our first med boating holiday was a SetSail flotilla out of Poros - sometime last century. It was a very enjoyable experience on both the sailing and the social side. A very good introduction to sailing in the Med.

 

[ashtead]

My concern with your plan is that you don’t like it too hot yet are looking at Turkey/Greece in June or July. I guess you won’t be chartering a boat with air conditioning but that might be a consideration . We did charters in Turkey -gocek etc before we bought -chartered a small round beneteau 323-very basic boat- it was quite squashed for just 3 even but found plenty of times you could dine alone ashore however sometimes flots take you to a one restaurant bay so long tables prevail. It’s not really a peaceful holiday though and certainly in Croatia marina fees should you visit are high and meals simple but pricey. Could you go on a flotilla at a different time to keep price down? End of season maybe?