Med boaters - will you get to your boat this year?

[MapisM]

There is an oil cooler in the housing behind the oil filters, all this has to be removed ………and replaced with new gaskets & bolts, to get to the gasket between the engine block and oil cooler, I’ve got a pdf of the parts but can’t load it on here.

Ok, now I get it.
When in post #2400 you said "It’s not the filters, it’s the block that the filters are bolted on to", I assumed that the leak was in between the assembly supporting the filters and the oil cooler behind it.
In other words, that the seal to be replaced was the one visible in the second pic below, after removing the filters support.
If the leak is in between the oil cooler and the block, I appreciate that the job is more tricky.

£6k still seems a bit steep to me, but I'm not the one who does that for a living.
I'd be in doubt about doing the job also on the non-leaking engine though, considering that leaving it alone means halving this costs, I suppose?
After all, there's no mention of replacing that seal in any MAN scheduled maintenance, neither in terms of time nor hours.
So it's a bit of a stretch to assume that the other seal is likely to fail soon just because it did on the other side.
Apropos, how many hours have your engines clocked?

 

[Portofino]

I think your barking up the wrong tree with the vibration thing, it’s a weak gasket that has gone, Paolo showed me quite a few pictures on his phone of the same gasket, and some bodged fixes, on other boats.

I will guarantee your Ferrari will need a water pump every few years and manifolds don’t last long, I’ve had a Gt4, GTB and Mondial, all of them needed water pumps .

Maybe with the vibration, Manufactures as time passes normally introduce a beefier part …..eventually if stuff fails prematurely in the field , or some other mod .

Water pumps are semi consumables, On cam belted motors it’s easy to change them at the same time as doing the belts , so a lot do all marques btw .
They don’t catastrophically fail .Incidentally it’s was Paolo who spotted the weep holes weeping on the Jabsco s ( you and MapishM) will have the same and suggested a rebuild on the MAN s .I did a thread on them .

Ferrari water pumps are relatively cheap about £300 ? Having said all this in the past 27 yrs , A Testarossa for 12 yrs ( 3 engine out cam belt services ) a 360 for 9 yrs serviced at JCT Leeds , and now a 70s GT 4 with carbs I don’t recall a water pump ?
There might be one in there somewhere.
They have turned out free motoring .
The Testarossa I bought in Switzerland for 50K CHF , worked out then £24 K .Brought it to the U.K. flogged it for £55 K , put about £15 k in it serving so came out ahead .The 360 bought it bs k end of 2008 a victim of the banking crisis FFSH for £30 K , carried on with the FFSH at JCT , sold it for £62 K , so again. Free motoring.
Current one bought it at a corner lot in Italy drove it to the U.K. , got it through the mot / DVLA malarkey, 2017 ?
Values are rising iam in it for £6 K at Italia Autosport .I do a lot of DIY work , it’s a hobby car eg I rebuilt the suspension ,chsnged the alternator , changed coolant pipes , I enjoy it working on it .
Ironically out of the lot the oldest is the most fun , best drive .
Worth a watch if you are in to cars sorry about the TD , but I know Chris s got bitten by the car bug .

Odd world we are lead to believe the next best and most expensive thing is always better .
Same in boats and there marketing machines I guess ? ……

The 430 , was a bigger vs of the 360 motor squeezed into the same engine compartment.They over curved the exhaust manifold s .They cracked in the field .As I said ^^^ took a while but they eventually introduced a modded manifold. Most will have been done by now .Thats an example of changes to parts due to field failures.Even Ferrari like all manufacturers do it .

 

[Chris H]

Maybe with the vibration, Manufactures as time passes normally introduce a beefier part …..eventually if stuff fails prematurely in the field , or some other mod .

Water pumps are semi consumables, On cam belted motors it’s easy to change them at the same time as doing the belts , so a lot do all marques btw .
They don’t catastrophically fail .Incidentally it’s was Paolo who spotted the weep holes weeping on the Jabsco s ( you and MapishM) will have the same and suggested a rebuild on the MAN s .I did a thread on them .

Ferrari water pumps are relatively cheap about £300 ? Having said all this in the past 27 yrs , A Testarossa for 12 yrs ( 3 engine out cam belt services ) a 360 for 9 yrs serviced at JCT Leeds , and now a 70s GT 4 with carbs I don’t recall a water pump ?
There might be one in there somewhere.
They have turned out free motoring .
The Testarossa I bought in Switzerland for 50K CHF , worked out then £24 K .Brought it to the U.K. flogged it for £55 K , put about £15 k in it serving so came out ahead .The 360 bought it bs k end of 2008 a victim of the banking crisis FFSH for £30 K , carried on with the FFSH at JCT , sold it for £62 K , so again. Free motoring.
Current one bought it at a corner lot in Italy drove it to the U.K. , got it through the mot / DVLA malarkey, 2017 ?
Values are rising iam in it for £6 K at Italia Autosport .I do a lot of DIY work , it’s a hobby car eg I rebuilt the suspension ,chsnged the alternator , changed coolant pipes , I enjoy it working on it .
Ironically out of the lot the oldest is the most fun , best drive .
Worth a watch if you are in to cars sorry about the TD , but I know Chris s got bitten by the car bug .

Odd world we are lead to believe the next best and most expensive thing is always better .
Same in boats and there marketing machines I guess ? ……

The 430 , was a bigger vs of the 360 motor squeezed into the same engine compartment.They over curved the exhaust manifold s .They cracked in the field .As I said ^^^ took a while but they eventually introduced a modded manifold. Most will have been done by now .Thats an example of changes to parts due to field failures.Even Ferrari like all manufacturers do it .

Say hello to Poggy from me

 

[Bouba]

The only guaranteed way to make money from a car is to buy a Tesla

 

[Chris H]

The only guaranteed way to make money from a car is to buy a Tesla

I’ve got a Tycan sat at a German port waiting for it’s 12 volt battery, been offered a few quid overs for it, I had a new GT3 …….for 3 weeks ?wife refused to sit in it but that was a big pay day when it went.

 

[Portofino]

Say hello to Poggy from me ✌

What a coincidence, we use the same Ferrari tech and now MAN tech for the tricky stuff .

@ MapishM I know on the face of it Chris fix sounds expensive, but theses are 20+ yr old motors and a guy like Paolo knows his stuff , his knowledge is hard to price up .I mean he is sea trailing it when he’s done .No doubt get the rated wot to match the rpms , or at least if it’s a rabbit hole take a few steps in .

“Poggo “ test drive personally all the F cars when they come in , and like Paolo with MAN boats test drives them after work .He’s the worlds leading authority on the F40 , FWIW .They don’t leave the shop until he signs them off .


Mines in there somewhere ^ .


My pumps on Paolo s bench with the genuine parts .


You want it doing right , the seals etc.

How many threads on here do we get with temp rises? Folks rinsing supermarket acid or ridlyme through? Shed loads .
WOT the other day the temps did not budge as I had confidence in the system inc the basic pumps .
Theses are serviceable parts often forgotten with the occasional impeller change .

 

[Portofino]

I’ve got a Tycan sat at a German port waiting for it’s 12 volt battery, been offered a few quid overs for it, I had a new GT3 …….for 3 weeks ?wife refused to sit in it but that was a big pay day when it went.

Saw a German plated Tycan going N on the autostrada round Torino the other day ….on a flat bed !
They seem to have had a lot of electrotwackery teething issues resulting in dead cars .
Good luck with yours …..as I said hope they have done a few in the field fixes .

Women don’t like 911 s from experience too .

 

[Chris H]

Saw a German plated Tycan going N on the autostrada round Torino the other day ….on a flat bed !
They seem to have had a lot of electrotwackery teething issues resulting in dead cars .
Good luck with yours …..as I said hope they have done a few in the field fixes .

Women don’t like 911 s from experience too .

My wife’s had 6 x 911 cabs over the years, she doesn’t do race seats ?

 

[Bouba]

Women don’t like 911 s from experience too .

Being inside a tiny car with a Porsche owner probably scares the life out of most women...

 

[Mr Googler]

Being inside a tiny car with a Porsche owner probably scares the life out of most women...

It’ll be the anorak that puts them off

 

[Hurricane]

The only guaranteed way to make money from a car is to buy a Tesla

And then fit one of these

 

[Portofino]

It’ll be the anorak that puts them off

If you are red blooded bloke into fast cars , there’s a lot of synergy with powerful boats , stylish boats like Pershings and sorry Elassar but iam mentioning the I word again …Itama .I guess big diesels like MAN , but could equally be MTU come go hand in hand .

As far as anoraks comments go , remember I knew nothing about deadrise or EGTs all those 9 yrs i plodded about in my Sunseeker .Thought it’s a Sunseeker with Volvo Penta outdrives therefore must be ok .
Or Porsche flat 6 s until delving into the M9a1 Mezglers type .

Some say and I can see there point ….with blokes the most fun is actually “in the hunt “
Modern day hunting is doing the due diligence and background research , I certainly enjoy the learning new stuff and applying it .

Even MapishM moving from a CAT powered D boat into a MAN powered planing boats been diving into the MAN V 8 pool and getting good info and sharing. No anorak ish behaviour it’s natural he’s been “ hunting “ .So have I and suspect Chris .

 

[MapisM]

@ MapishM I know on the face of it Chris fix sounds expensive, but theses are 20+ yr old motors and a guy like Paolo knows his stuff, his knowledge is hard to price up.
I mean he is sea trailing it when he’s done. No doubt get the rated wot to match the rpms, or at least if it’s a rabbit hole take a few steps in.

Well, I also said I understand that dismantling the whole oil cooler is a job different from what I previously understood.
And my comment wasn't meant as a criticism to that chap specifically, anyway!
What I always suggest to my boating mates is that when it comes to boat repairs, you can either spend a lot, or a (relatively) reasonable amount.
With the former, there is still the risk to get a shite job, but with the latter, that's almost a certainty... ?

Besides, in a previous post Chris said that this mechanic is not only going to seatrial the boat, but also that he'll do that with his own instruments, which is very remarkable. In fact, while this might seem trivial to anyone used to electronic engines where all it takes is a connected notebook, it's actually a helluva job with mechanical engines like these.
I never had that done on my boat (not even upon purchase!), but I know for a fact that upon first seatrial, it took hours just to connect all sensors, linked to a rather large portable case with all sort of gauges. But that was a strict MAN requirement, because they didn't activate the warranty before receiving the first start report signed by one of their official dealers.
That's a 7 (!) pages document filled with details, both static on the installation as such and dynamic during the seatrial through the whole RPM range.
All sort of pressures and temperatures, air, oil, fuel, raw water, coolant, turbo, EGT for each cylinder bank (you'd love that!), exhaust backpressure, boat AoA... You name it.
In fact, I'd be curious to hear from Chris if he'll get such report from this chap upon seatrial, because that's a substantial added value, regardless of the specific fault that is being fixed.
Also because it would be interesting to compare it with the first start report when the boat was new, if he has a copy (and if he doesn't, any official dealer can access the MAN database and get it for him).

All that said, I maintain that the suggestion to do the job also on the other engine that doesn't leak is a bit rich.
I mean, £3k for a preventative maintenance for which MAN does not even mention a check/tightening/whatever, at any life stage of the engines?
Based on this thread, yesterday I checked that spot on my very same engines (2003 vintage, almost 1600 hours clocked), and found no signs of leaks.
Now, I neither know the year nor the hours of Chris engines (hence my question in the previous post), but it's rather rare that boats like his Pershing reach very high hours numbers...

 

[Mr Googler]

If you are red blooded bloke into fast cars , there’s a lot of synergy with powerful boats , stylish boats like Pershings and sorry Elassar but iam mentioning the I word again …Itama .I guess big diesels like MAN , but could equally be MTU come go hand in hand .

As far as anoraks comments go , remember I knew nothing about deadrise or EGTs all those 9 yrs i plodded about in my Sunseeker .Thought it’s a Sunseeker with Volvo Penta outdrives therefore must be ok .
Or Porsche flat 6 s until delving into the M9a1 Mezglers type .

Some say and I can see there point ….with blokes the most fun is actually “in the hunt “
Modern day hunting is doing the due diligence and background research , I certainly enjoy the learning new stuff and applying it .

Even MapishM moving from a CAT powered D boat into a MAN powered planing boats been diving into the MAN V 8 pool and getting good info and sharing. No anorak ish behaviour it’s natural he’s been “ hunting “ .So have I and suspect Chris .

You’re not helping the anti anorak argument with such a long, detailed post ?

 

[Chris H]

Well, I also said I understand that dismantling the whole oil cooler is a job different from what I previously understood.
And my comment wasn't meant as a criticism to that chap specifically, anyway!
What I always suggest to my boating mates is that when it comes to boat repairs, you can either spend a lot, or a (relatively) reasonable amount.
With the former, there is still the risk to get a shite job, but with the latter, that's almost a certainty... ?

Besides, in a previous post Chris said that this mechanic is not only going to seatrial the boat, but also that he'll do that with his own instruments, which is very remarkable. In fact, while this might seem trivial to anyone used to electronic engines where all it takes is a connected notebook, it's actually a helluva job with mechanical engines like these.
I never had that done on my boat (not even upon purchase!), but I know for a fact that upon first seatrial, it took hours just to connect all sensors, linked to a rather large portable case with all sort of gauges. But that was a strict MAN requirement, because they didn't activate the warranty before receiving the first start report signed by one of their official dealers.
That's a 7 (!) pages document filled with details, both static on the installation as such and dynamic during the seatrial through the whole RPM range.
All sort of pressures and temperatures, air, oil, fuel, raw water, coolant, turbo, EGT for each cylinder bank (you'd love that!), exhaust backpressure, boat AoA... You name it.
In fact, I'd be curious to hear from Chris if he'll get such report from this chap upon seatrial, because that's a substantial added value, regardless of the specific fault that is being fixed.
Also because it would be interesting to compare it with the first start report when the boat was new, if he has a copy (and if he doesn't, any official dealer can access the MAN database and get it for him).

All that said, I maintain that the suggestion to do the job also on the other engine that doesn't leak is a bit rich.
I mean, £3k for a preventative maintenance for which MAN does not even mention a check/tightening/whatever, at any life stage of the engines?
Based on this thread, yesterday I checked that spot on my very same engines (2003 vintage, almost 1600 hours clocked), and found no signs of leaks.
Now, I neither know the year nor the hours of Chris engines (hence my question in the previous post), but it's rather rare that boats like his Pershing reach very high hours numbers...

I’ve just gone over 500 hours, so nearly run in, I’m also very interested in the sea trial, I didn’t get an engine survey carried out when I bought the boat, so will be good to find out, I did ask what can be monitored on mechanical engines and straight away he said they connect a lap top to water , oil and EGT, where there isn’t a sensor, he uses his own in the various plugs.

 

[MapisM]

Even MapishM moving from a CAT powered D boat into a MAN powered planing boats been diving into the MAN V 8 pool and getting good info and sharing.
No anorak ish behaviour it’s natural he’s been “ hunting “ .So have I and suspect Chris .

Just for the records, during my search I would have really liked a Cat 3406/C15 powered boat, because most experts agree that it was the best engine in the 800hp power node. But for reasons that I'm missing, just a few builders used them for 17/18m flybridge boats of the late 90s/early noughties (which were my target).

Aicon is the most remarkable exception, because all their 56 were 3406 powered. But other than that, the construction quality was shabby, in more ways than one.
Ferretti offered the choice between Cat and MAN in their 57, which was a great boat, but most of them were actually built with MANs, and the only one I came across with Cats had other problems.
The 3406 was also an option on the Squadron 58, but most of them had the Volvos I'm not a big fan of - though in fairness the D12 were among their best engines, and they were not the reason why I ruled out the two Sq58 I checked out.
A few other builders, like VZ, DP and Uniesse, gave no other choice than MANs (an approach I understand and agree with, in principle), in spite of the fact that they offered an impressive degree of customization for the boat size.

Bottom line, MAN wasn't actually my first preference - more like a second best. But all boats are compromises!

 

[MapisM]

I’ve just gone over 500 hours, so nearly run in, I’m also very interested in the sea trial, I didn’t get an engine survey carried out when I bought the boat, so will be good to find out, I did ask what can be monitored on mechanical engines and straight away he said they connect a lap top to water , oil and EGT, where there isn’t a sensor, he uses his own in the various plugs.

Wow, 500 hours? They are still in their infancy! Built in the early noughties, I suppose?

Anyway, I guess that over the years some PC interface was developed for reading the old school analogue probes, because the single diagnostic connection available in electronic engines obviously doesn't exist in ours, and neither there's a way to retrofit it, to my knowledge.
I've seen the portable instruments case that they used for the first start protocol up to the mid noughties, and it's very impressive, with glycerin filled, very accurate gauges.
But certainly nowhere near as practical as collecting all data on a laptop and get the report directly on a file!

Ask your MAN guy to fetch the first start report if you don't have it.
On top of being interesting to compare, it's a very useful documentation to keep with all other boat files.
I can PM you mine, if you would like to check that out.
The form is in Italian, but chances are that it was also for your boat, because these first seatrials were arranged by the builder together with the local MAN dealer, regardless of the final boat destination.

 

[TonyR123]

I’ve got a Tycan sat at a German port waiting for it’s 12 volt battery, been offered a few quid overs for it, I had a new GT3 …….for 3 weeks ?wife refused to sit in it but that was a big pay day when it went.

funny that - wife has sat in my GT3 once. Didn't like it and unlikely to sit in it ever again. Cannot see myself ever selling it

 

[Chris H]

funny that - wife has sat in my GT3 once. Didn't like it and unlikely to sit in it ever again. Cannot see myself ever selling it

Happy wife, happy life ?

 

[Bouba]

Got up early this morning and filled up at €1.70 litre (wish I had a bigger tank)..then had a swim under the boat to check anodes. Back in time for a dog walk and lunch before the midday wind stirred