Med boaters - will you get to your boat this year?

[Deleted User YDKXO]

So I haven’t been asleep for the few months by the sounds of it. That makes me feel a bit better! My boat is U.K. flagged so I’m hoping will be OK.

As somebody who suffered at the hands of the Majorcan authorities in 2009 when they unilaterally decided to impose the Spanish matriculation tax on some foreign boaters, I wouldnt put it past them to try to impose something as stupid as this but it really would be a case of shooting themselves in both feet, especially given the fact that Covid has devastated their tourist industry. But then various national and regional govts in the Med have done idiotic things over the years which have damaged their own boating and tourist industries so I would never say never

 

[Bouba]

Would it be so onerous to get an Eu qualification ?

 

[Moonstruck]

Would it be so onerous to get an Eu qualification ?

No not all, but I believe fluent Spanish is required and I am not fluent !

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Would it be so onerous to get an Eu qualification ?

Its not about onerous. Its an insult and an affront to our fine British ICC. Do they not realise how hard we had to work to get that ICC? Its a long time ago for me but I remember I had to fill out a form, lick an envelope and walk to the postbox with it. They dont just give these things out to anybody you know!

 

[Bouba]

No not all, but I believe fluent Spanish is required and I am not fluent !

It doesn’t have to be Spain does it ?

 

[Moonstruck]

N

It doesn’t have to be Spain does it ?

No......... but that’s where my boat is !

 

[Bouba]

N

No......... but that’s where my boat is !

But a French boat school (for example) will have it’s own boat

 

[Clancy Moped]

On the FB 'Boating in Mallorca' page they are saying it's BS. BTW the equivalent of RYA Day Skipper involves 40-50 hour theoretical and practical all in Spanish only.

 

[Hurricane]

Its not about onerous. Its an insult and an affront to our fine British ICC. Do they not realise how hard we had to work to get that ICC? Its a long time ago for me but I remember I had to fill out a form, lick an envelope and walk to the postbox with it. They dont just give these things out to anybody you know!

Awww
I had to buy the instructor/examiner a drink at the bar as well!!

 

[Asm]

Not sure if I have missed this but in today’s Majorcan press (Daily Bulletin) there is an article stating that RYA qualifications are currently not being accepted by Spanish authorities to allow you to move your boat anywhere! This is causing an “exodus” of boats . I thought I had read that this applied to commercial/charter skippers but did not realise this applied to leisure skippers as well. They are saying we would need Spanish qualifications. Is this everyone’s understanding? I believe it is the same for France as well. Its been a long winter and I’m guessing I have missed this very fundamental change.

The article is completely wrong on many counts. Further, it was announced last week that the Spanish would change the law to recognise certain UK qualifications (only RYA?)
Extract:-
As a result of the conversations held by ANEN with the General Directorate of the Merchant Marine, always attentive to the needs of our sector, and in relation to the effects of Brexit on the validity in Spain of the nautical titles of British citizens, said British qualifications will be recognized in Spain before the start of the summer season.

 

[Asm]

Not sure if I have missed this but in today’s Majorcan press (Daily Bulletin) there is an article stating that RYA qualifications are currently not being accepted by Spanish authorities to allow you to move your boat anywhere! This is causing an “exodus” of boats . I thought I had read that this applied to commercial/charter skippers but did not realise this applied to leisure skippers as well. They are saying we would need Spanish qualifications. Is this everyone’s understanding? I believe it is the same for France as well. Its been a long winter and I’m guessing I have missed this very fundamental change.

I should perhaps add, as far as I am aware, a private, British flagged boat, skippered by a Brit with an appropriate rya licence has never been an issue in Spain! The local paper in question can publish an alarming ‘fact’ one week, then contradict itself the following week!

 

[Clancy Moped]

Note this is Google translation of the original. The original in Spanish Las titulaciones náuticas de recreo británicas serán reconocidas en España antes del inicio de la temporada estival - Anen

'As a result of the conversations held by ANEN with the General Directorate of the Merchant Marine, always attentive to the needs of our sector, and in relation to the effects of Brexit on the validity in Spain of the nautical titles of British citizens, said British qualifications will be recognized in Spain before the start of the summer season.

In the document published in its day by the DGMM (it can be consulted in this LINK ) and that was analyzed in the Webinar organized by ANEN on legislative updates in progress last February, it was indicated that “ From January 1, 2021 , British citizens cannot continue to benefit from the recognition of their pleasure titles to govern pleasure boats under the Spanish flag, as the requirements established in the third and fourth additional provisions of Royal Decree 875/2014 are not met, when the United Kingdom passes to be considered a third country and not appear in the list of countries listed in Annex IX, whose degrees issued are recognized ".

This situation, also in accordance with the information provided by the DGMM, will change once the Royal Decree that regulates the safety and pollution prevention equipment of pleasure boats is published , in which a provision that modifies aspects has been included. included in Royal Decree 238/2019, including an amendment to Royal Decree 875/2014 (October 10, which regulates nautical qualifications for the government of pleasure boats), in order to include Gran Britain in its Annex IX (Titles issued by other states). Thus,With the entry into force of the new Royal Decree, whose publication is expected shortly, all the aforementioned would cease to be valid and British citizens will be able to use the RYA title to rent and govern pleasure boats under the Spanish flag in our waters.'

 

[Moonstruck]

I should perhaps add, as far as I am aware, a private, British flagged boat, skippered by a Brit with an appropriate rya licence has never been an issue in Spain! The local paper in question can publish an alarming ‘fact’ one week, then contradict itself the following week!

That’s very reassuring, Thankyou for all the responses

 

[Portofino]

Not sure if I have missed this but in today’s Majorcan press (Daily Bulletin) there is an article stating that RYA qualifications are currently not being accepted by Spanish authorities to allow you to move your boat anywhere! This is causing an “exodus” of boats . I thought I had read that this applied to commercial/charter skippers but did not realise this applied to leisure skippers as well. They are saying we would need Spanish qualifications. Is this everyone’s understanding? I believe it is the same for France as well. Its been a long winter and I’m guessing I have missed this very fundamental change.

Yep those who know me on here know I have been banging on about this for years .....seemingly to deaf ears .
I keep this in notes because post Brexit I figured it would rear its ugly head .
There was a thread a few months back re a Greek officials acting within the letter of international law for 3 rd parties .Iirc the guy took a €200 fine for using his rib without a Greek licence or something along those lines .

Sorry for you guys I,am being proven correct on this qualification row .


Its currently over looked at the mo in the EU , but your ( what ever flagged boat ) stays effectively permanently, more than 6 months then by the book they can now insist you follow local rules , so no change per se after 1/1/21 , just a question if a cattle prod from Brussels comes down forcing the Sp FR or what ever to apply it .

You can see why waaaaay back in 2005 I did the French permit d Mer .Already had the RYA tickets btw , this was as well as ,not instead of - because at the time the boat is / was not transient in the Cote d Azur .
The rag on the back stuck to a pole is irrelevant.


Greece is perfectly within its rights to impose its own rules on foreign flagged boats that are based in its waters.


This “ British flag = British rules “ debate regularly crops up. I think you need to read Uncloss 11 and other international agreements. The coastal State can impose whatever conditions it wants on vessels NOT on innocent passage. Portugal for instance requires pleasure craft there for more that 6 months to carry the same safety equipment as Portuguese registered ones although unlike a few years ago Portugal where foreign flagged boats that are deemed resident are required to comply with local rules on equipment. New Zealand also applies local rules to foreign boats that are resident, although like Portugal it exempts genuine visitors or boats on "innocent passage".

Innocent passage is an important concept in international law as that is when coastal states apply the principle of "comity" and respect the state flags rules. However once a boat starts cruising within the waters of the coastal state, and that time exceeds 6 months then “innocent passage “no longer applies and with it comity, although in practice most states do extend comity, at least for private leisure craft. That’s the current position within the Med.

 

[Portofino]

Note this is Google translation of the original. The original in Spanish Las titulaciones náuticas de recreo británicas serán reconocidas en España antes del inicio de la temporada estival - Anen

'As a result of the conversations held by ANEN with the General Directorate of the Merchant Marine, always attentive to the needs of our sector, and in relation to the effects of Brexit on the validity in Spain of the nautical titles of British citizens, said British qualifications will be recognized in Spain before the start of the summer season.

In the document published in its day by the DGMM (it can be consulted in this LINK ) and that was analyzed in the Webinar organized by ANEN on legislative updates in progress last February, it was indicated that “ From January 1, 2021 , British citizens cannot continue to benefit from the recognition of their pleasure titles to govern pleasure boats under the Spanish flag, as the requirements established in the third and fourth additional provisions of Royal Decree 875/2014 are not met, when the United Kingdom passes to be considered a third country and not appear in the list of countries listed in Annex IX, whose degrees issued are recognized ".

This situation, also in accordance with the information provided by the DGMM, will change once the Royal Decree that regulates the safety and pollution prevention equipment of pleasure boats is published , in which a provision that modifies aspects has been included. included in Royal Decree 238/2019, including an amendment to Royal Decree 875/2014 (October 10, which regulates nautical qualifications for the government of pleasure boats), in order to include Gran Britain in its Annex IX (Titles issued by other states). Thus,With the entry into force of the new Royal Decree, whose publication is expected shortly, all the aforementioned would cease to be valid and British citizens will be able to use the RYA title to rent and govern pleasure boats under the Spanish flag in our waters.'

“ Spanish flag “ ^^^^

What about red / blue ensign U.K. reg boats ?? ..........It does not say does it so you drop as 3 p into comity rules .

There home mkt tourist rentals has changed so the hire Co s will be happy if a Brit turns up with RYA qualified to rent that’s all .

 

[TonyR123]

According to the ‘islander’ mag in Mallorca the ICC is a UN qualification and not EU. In any case those I trust in Mallorca say ‘the Spanish will recognise U.K. qualifications for U.K. flagged boats’

 

[Clancy Moped]

“ Spanish flag “ ^^^^

What about red / blue ensign U.K. reg boats ?? ..........It does not say does it so you drop as 3 p into comity rules .

There home mkt tourist rentals has changed so the hire Co s will be happy if a Brit turns up with RYA qualified to rent that’s all .

​

 

[Portofino]

@ Tony post #256 and Clancy Moped post #257 your posts do not conflict with what I have posted in# 254 .

If we you are on “ innocent passage “

What you need to ask them if the none domestic qualifications for 3 p states will be recognised if boats are not on “innocent passage “ ie permanently berthed ?

Its silent on that .

 

[Clancy Moped]

More concrete news on Friday.

 

[Clancy Moped]

I should perhaps add, as far as I am aware, a private, British flagged boat, skippered by a Brit with an appropriate rya licence has never been an issue in Spain! The local paper in question can publish an alarming ‘fact’ one week, then contradict itself the following week!

The local paper is already changing it's tune on the story on it's FB page.