MCA Consultation on the Future of Flare Disposal

NorthRising said:
It is basically a word processed document with a list of questions on, it doesn't even have boxes for the answers, seemingly you email it back. Have they not heard of Google Forms. Worst effort I have seen in sometime. I know where I want to point the flares..
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Yes, and the text of the consultation itself is a bit amateurish, both in writing style and in domain knowledge (the author doesn't seem to fully grasp what the three common types of flare (parachute, hand, smoke) actually are, for instance). I'd have answered an online survey, but I don't think I can be bothered to send back their form from 1997.

Pete
 
Heres a question. If you had some old flares that you wanted to dispose of, could you try and let them off underwater? Would they still work or would they immediately extinguish and become safe? What would be the impact of the water on them?

Also, if you are absolutely NOWHERE near water,(say 30 miles or so) can you let off a smoke canister or handheld (not rocket) flare to see the effects of it working, without reprisal from the emergency services or Police?
 
mickywillis said:
Heres a question. If you had some old flares that you wanted to dispose of, could you try and let them off underwater? Would they still work or would they immediately extinguish and become safe?
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That's how I dispose of hand flares. I don't ignite them underwater, though I expect it would work - I light them normally in air and then immediately drop them into the dustbin of water I keep for flushing the outboard. They keep burning at the bottom of the bin, but the water absorbs the smoke, light, and noise to reduce the nuisance to my neighbours.

Originally I used to burn them fully in air, by way of training (I had my then-regular crew over to practice one time) but the novelty is long gone now and underwater burning is more convenient. I drain the water afterwards to avoid pumping ash through the outboard, and recover the spent casings.

This only works for hand flares - letting orange smoke drift around a populated area would be antisocial, and they float so can't easily be dropped in the bin (I suppose I could wire them to a brick or something, but I've never tried it...). Parachute rockets are even more antisocial, as they could be mistaken for a real signal and they come down still burning which would be dangerous except in a very remote area after heavy rain (and even then it's littering). So those types are both piling up in my shed until I have an opportunity to hand them in somewhere.

The specific rules about not setting off flares only apply at sea and in football stadiums. Obviously setting one off in the street could be all sorts of public-order offences, but there's no law against burning stuff in your own back garden if you're not causing a nuisance to anyone else.

(Smokes would be ok if you had enough land that it wasn't drifting somewhere unwelcome. I've seen standard marine smoke flares (don't know if current or expired) used on paintball fields, for instance.)

Pete
 
We changed boats in 2014 - some time expired flares made their way off with the new owners to the Continent.

Since then I’ve had a ritual at Southampton each September when I explain to the nice RNLI people I haven’t got flares for the mew boat yet, should I, or should I get a laser. Every year it was “Get proper flares Maam, the lasers aren’t as good”. Until 2019, when the narrative changed, “laser is fine”.

I can’t help but feel they are antiquated. A PLB, Grab Bag, Handheld with a set of replacement batteries, seems a better investment.
 
I found 28 flares that expired in 2014 when we took on our boat late last year, I was advised to contact the CG at Dover who disposed of them for me at no charge (apart from a 60 mile roundtrip from Ramsgate).
 
alan_d said:
If you Google you will find, for example, THIS
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Poor chap. However, the extremely rare accudents and malfuntions do not mean we should stop using flares.
Rarely, car brakes malfunction and cause injury. That is not an argument for cars without brakes.
 
Immediately I received a copy of the form I wrote to the return email address & to my surprise i received a response almost immediately
i would suggest that owners who use flares DO take the effort to reply because it will affect them in the long run & the response I received suggests that someone is going to look at it.
However, to suggest that they did not include yacht clubs in the consultation, because they do not have the email addresses, is a bit weak to say the least.
I did not get an answer t the second point that I made
I have written to the RYA to see how they intend to respond to the consultation, but, understandably, to date have had no response.

Email
Sir
I am in receipt of the government’s consultation paper re disposal of flares.
I am concerned about the consultation list.
I notice that the vast majority is to marinas.
Now to use the analogy used by the document of tyre disposal; one would not write to National Car Parks PLC to ask how the owners of cars parked in their car parks felt about their tyres.
Surely one might write to , say , the Morgan owners club & ask them.
The only real “owner” contacts are the RYA & Cruising Association . Whilst they are leading organisations one will only get a limited opinion, not necessarily a balanced one at that.
I would suggest that you should have written direct to yacht clubs that have a large cruising fleets.
In this way one would achieve a direct interaction with people who actually use the flares & thus obtain better results.

Whilst I have only scanned the document lightly & possibly missed the point, I have not seen the question asked:-
“ Do owners actually KNOW of the existing LEGAL arrangements for flare disposal?”
“Would they have USED them if they did know?”


Reply
Thank you for raising this issue, and I am very happy to ensure that as many individuals, businesses, clubs and associations are included in the consultation.
To that end I have been working with the Maritime and Coastguard Agency (MCA) to ensure that we do reach out to the clubs as you suggest. I would also add that the list in the consultation refers primarily to those where there is an email address, as opposed to any other route.
The MCA also use different strands of social media and sector specific publications to communicate the start of the consultation, so it is hoped that most of those in the sector will be made aware and are able to respond.
I thank you for the time you have taken to alert me to this point.
 
There are downsides to electronis signalling devices for use at sea. The main one being that the public do not know about them.
If a boat within sight of land ( or even beyond the horizon) sets off a flare & it is seen by a member of the public; there is a good chance it could be reported.
A vast majority of UK boaters sail fairly close inshore on their trips around the UK for a large portion of the trip. The range of a parachute flare is quite large.
A hand held flashing red light is hardly likely to raise any awareness on land & its range is limited at sea level. Excellent for close up rescue situations. But little more. It is not yet a recognised means of distress signal for vessels at sea ( At least I do not thinks so) . It does operate for a longer length of time provided the operator is actually in a position to keep it held up. That is not always a given in some situations.
It is relatively cheap. It does not have the problem of disposal associated with flares.
Personally I will keep renewing my flares, have my EPIRB & my PLB , Keep them serviced, along with my liferaft.
Hope for the best, plan for the worse.
 
When I was at a liferaft service centre, a film company was there collecting all their old flares. The chap said that they wanted them for explosion effects in films & could take all they could get. Unfortunately I did not get his phone No, but it later occurred to me that if this was a regular thing it would save a lot of problems.
I do not know how he was dealing with the transportation & storage. Perhaps he was ignoring all licensing laws etc It is an unknown. But a use for old flares all the same.
 
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girlofwight said:
We changed boats in 2014 - some time expired flares made their way off with the new owners to the Continent.

Since then I’ve had a ritual at Southampton each September when I explain to the nice RNLI people I haven’t got flares for the mew boat yet, should I, or should I get a laser. Every year it was “Get proper flares Maam, the lasers aren’t as good”. Until 2019, when the narrative changed, “laser is fine”.

I can’t help but feel they are antiquated. A PLB, Grab Bag, Handheld with a set of replacement batteries, seems a better investment.
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The problem I have with lasers (by which I assume you mean LED because lasers will actively discourage rescue from the air) are a) are they at all effective by day and b) can they be seen by night vision goggles used by search and rescue helicopters?
 
Gary Fox said:
Poor chap. However, the extremely rare accudents and malfuntions do not mean we should stop using flares.
Rarely, car brakes malfunction and cause injury. That is not an argument for cars without brakes.
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My post was intended solely to answer the question you posed -" When and where did that happen? "
I do have an opinion on whether I should continue to carry flares on board but have no intention of sharing it in this thread as the topic has been discussed exhaustively in these forums.
 
The problem of disposal is one reason why I disposed of my fireworks when they expired, and replaced them with an LED flare.

I know the arguments for and against fireworks, and my risk assessment for inshore sailing says a 12v VHF, handheld VHF, mobile phone and an LED flare is adequate. A PLB would be a useful addition, and I think I'll be getting one if I can actually get out sailing a bit this year.
 
I used up most of my old flares in lockdown 1. I set one off once and the neighbours asked me to do it again each week until the clocks went forward.

The fashionistas kept trying to bring flares back in different mutations until they realised they needed to change the name; the successful variant was 'boot cut.'
 
Never Grumble said:
Do you have any recommendations on that front I could do with some new ones, Solent area.
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I'm in Plymouth so can't recommend anybody in the Solent.

When looking to to replace my pyrotechnics, I am very pro pyrotechnics you will find others who are "not keen", I always ask if they will take my old ones back, if they do they get the business if they don't I leave the shop never to pass through their doors again.
 
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