MBM Cruising Club

You really make it sound that you are not interested in smaller craft. I understand insurance but to say your worried about small craft range (carry fuel cans) is a poor excuse - diesel boats have a good range, petrol I agree could be a problem.

Then you wonder why smaller craft cruises don't seem popular, well if you only going to cruise locally from one marine to another e.g. Cowes to Yarmouth it's not surprising.

RM.
 
I saw your boat on one of the lakes in Zeeland. We were heading in the same direction as you but to a different destination. Our boat's called Tommy. I was sat on the aft deck with a bottle of lager !!

Pauline B
 
Re: smaller craft

hmm. Seem to remeber a sealine 23 going cross-channel, made into a 25footer by nailing on a plywood bowsprit.

If they need insurance, I can see that the longer trips would become a fixing-fest, with near-certainty of super-cost-concious smaller boats or never-been x-channel smaller boats breaking down or copping out. 25 feet seems a generous minimum IMHO for group x-channel trip.
 
No, very sorry if it made it sound that way. Just pointing out the practical constraints of a commercial operation that has to manage risk and carry such things as insurance.

Our trailboat trips never ever went from Cowes to Yarmouth; in fact none of our trips ever stayed in the Solent...those that started there were aimed at breaking people out of three barriers (Needles, Looe Channel and shipping lanes). Events for smaller craft have often been based in key locations with good cruising but where there was sheltered water also to hand in case weather was likely to stop play. Examples: West Country, Milford Haven, East Coast rivers, Scottish West Coast and so on.

Another aspect a bit tricky to plan for was that some smaller boats had accommodation and some did not, so it suited some participants to be near a fixed base whilst others wanted to roam.

Given that we have always been very conscious of the nervousness of some participants (certainly their crews) onboard boats of whatever size, the MBM Cruising Club has always steered a path on the safe side of adventurous as far as weather is concerned, another factor.

It was never our intention to ignore owners of smaller craft and I believe the new editor Jake might be working on some fresh ideas so that MBM can prove that to you. However, it remains a fact that the numbers of smaller craft participants did drop off quite significantly through the 1990s, to the extent of us changing from running two dedicated events per annum, each with circa 20 boats, to one with 10 or less. That despite us trying to reflect the feedback we were getting at the time with regard to future planning (save for cross Channels which we couldn't do).

As I said in the last post, I'm sure there were mistakes we made (mostly marketing as opposed to operational) that might have contributed to that, but it was to do with market trends as well and also about having a loyal readership that in many cases have traded up in size (and often speed) on one or more occasions in the past few years.
 
Re: smaller craft

Agree with you Matt, There aren't many boats sub 25' that I would really want to cross the channel in, particularly on one of the longer passages and if time of going and returning is a factor. A few exceptions such as Seaward 23, CI 22 etc which are all well proven in rough conditions, but can't think of many others. No doubt many have done it, maybe Dover Calais type distance but probably not much further.
 
Re: that\'s not quite the problem

crossing the channel on a sub-25 footer isn't the problem. It's crossing the channel to Cherbourg a week on tuesday. Tuesday dawns and most of them on bigger boats reckon it'll be OKish that is the problem for groups trips. I suppose the orgainsers have to hope that it's either force 6+ or under 3, whereas forecast 4-5 is iffy and can split a fleet - but they've all paid.
 
Re: that\'s not quite the problem

Dead right. We've watched the chaps on the Squaddie ahead almost spilling their wine on the flybridge going thro the Alderney Race. A hundred yards astern, and we were fighting to keep the props in the water...
 
Re: that\'s not quite the problem

If the race was bad then usually the swinge is flattish as long it is not nearing high or low water!!

Just a local tip!!

Dom
 
Some valid and interesting points. I guess I either do what Matts suggested and nail some plywood to the bow/stern or wait until I upgrade in the future.

I agree that the new editor of MBM is working hard to strike a balance to all boaters and seems to get it right better than MBY.

RM.

RM.
 
Re: 3rd party liability insurance??

Kim, you say that you exclude smaller boats for insurance reasons. What would they be?

I can't think of any circumstances where MBM has any liability. If for example, you\Tom say "the weathers good let's go" and it turns crap, surely I couldn't make a claim against you, 'cos as the captain of my ship, it was MY decision to follow your recommendation.

Likewise with the route and waypoints. They're only your recommendations, the final decision as to route to take etc is surely only the captain's?

Can you explain under what possible circumstances in law, MBM could be held liable for any damage or loss?
 
Looking for a new handheld?

Hey Piers you could be in with a shout for that handheld with the amount of replies you have here!

Careful you know Tom will only steal it off you when its 1am and he is calling everyone up looking for a party to go to!

Dom
 
Aah, I remember Kim asking if anyone had seen the drunken girl sitting on Tommy's face, now I know what he meant.
 
I understand that with only very minor 'mods' your boat could be made to exceed the 25ft - a 22ft Bayliner with a significant bowsprit has been known to attend so an S24 shouldn't be a problem!
Anyway I thought you were heading of into the wild blue yonders of Dorset and Devon in next years guaranteed hot smooth summer weekends.....
 
Re: 3rd party liability insurance??

I am the captain of my ship and I have my wife's permission to say so. (Hope she doesn't read this).
 
LOL

I did feel sorry for you when I read the article in MBM.
I wonder how many readers now check and double check which filler they are about to use!

Regards
Mike
 
Dom,

Hey, I forgot to add comment on Buzz - what an experience that was!

Years ago, I threaded the Needes in a 21' sports boat (when I was immature and inexperienced - so, as my wife would say, what's changed?) but to have Buzz leading in Calm Voyager with me in Play d'eau following, to circumnavigate Herm and Sark at exactly the lowest tide of the year, was something else.

I have the video of it - spectacular.

And to hear Buzz advise "when you follow me, don't even think of going port or stbd of the track I make - you can't, there's no water, only rock" was something of a challenge to a chap's sense of humour!

Seriously, though, it was excellent. And given his local knowledege/lifeboat work and so on, quite exhilirating - and we all survived to tell the tale.

Piers du Pre
MBM Cruising Club enthusiast
 
Re: fuel filling

In the UK, do they make a point of handing the diesel pipe to you? I seem to rememeber that they do. Awful anyway.
 
Re: 3rd party liability insurance??

Colin, we've never made it obvious to participants, or allowed a 'not me guv' culture to govern cruises, but we have always had a strong discipline operating behind the scenes on what I suppose you could call 'threat management'. Whenever there has been an incident of any kind, however minor, Tom and I have documented it and kept the file. We also typically fill an A4 workboat per cruise with log entries that capture all weather and tide data, as well as actions and any key VHF transmissions. One positive of course is that we learn much for the future and quite a bit of the guidance offered in MBM Club briefings comes from that hard won knowledge.

Why such procedures and liability insurance? Most solicitors in the land are not conversant with maritime law and responsibilities and if you present them with a fat target they are increasingly inclined to go after it. Double ditto the 'no cure, no pay' firms. In 14 years of operation we have never needed to defend a claim regarding a cruise in company but have had to see off a couple of attempts arising from other on-water activities we have been involved with - one notably that was delivered by a 'no cure, no pay' outfit 21 months after the event with no prior warning. It was a silly attempt to claim for what turned out to be a pre-existing injury, but it took nine months to defend.

Maritime policies should cover the material damage to the boat and Master under God' should indeed place the onus on individual skippers, but when you get into the consequential loss/mental and physical trauma areas we've taken a view that it is a potential lottery. In fact, if you want to get really scared (or have an excuse for a) heading for a Pacific island or b) never ever inviting friends aboard again) check your policy to see how well covered you would be if one of them tripped on your 'Welcome aboard' mat, got rolled by the nearby beer crate and then broke an arm falling down the companionway.

Remember that this is not just about whether a claim would ultimately succeed...it's also about whether you have put yourself in a position to more easily defend a claim.

Also bear in mind that MBM has in the past used volunteers as well as freelancers and staff, so we've seen it as only being sensible and respectful of other peoples' effrorts that we had the liability cover for their efforts, provided they (and we) stuck to certain laid-down criteria.

Over the years we have had an increasing number of private clubs contact us with regard to advice on this issue of liability cover. Mr A (house and boat owner, two cars, other assets) organises cruise for Mr B, C, D et al on behalf of amateur club X with next to no assets and suddenly feels exposed if he gets it wrong. I know a number of clubs have subsequently exercised the option of taking out a policy and in these increasingly litigious days perhaps that's no bad thing.

Finally, why 25ft loa? Well you could equally say why 17 knots, for anyone who has dealt with 'speedboat clauses'. After all, a plank of wood hit at 18 knots won't do much more damage than one hit at 16 knots. By the same token, there are some boats that scrape into 25ft loa that are theoretically nowhere near as capable at sea as a Channel Islands 22 or Seaward 23, or Orkney 20, or a well-found RIB, for example.

We used to have unlimited cover in the late 1980s, but were forced to agree to some conditional terms in the early 1990s in order to keep premiums in check. Having had to stand guard alongside a Fairline 21 Sprint 10 miles north of Alderney in a rolling swell whilst the owner teetered backwards and forwards along the side deck with 20lt petrol jerrycans, I must admit that my heart had, in a close conversation with my mouth, suggested that we should formulate some views about necessary restrictions, but the 25ft loa rule was the insurance company's, not ours. No doubt, as with anything else, it is something that one could attempt to renegotiate but hopefully those that have struggled all the way down this long response will agree that sensible definitions are not always easy. The Recreational Craft Directive has proven that!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Other threads that may be of interest

O
Club Entropy
2
Replies
26
Views
862
The Q
T
E
Nimbus 305 or Marex 330
Replies
19
Views
939
Time Out
T
Dino
Ireland-Scillies-Cornwall Cruise 2026
Replies
12
Views
560
Farmer Piles
Farmer Piles
Refueler
Taking your cruising ground ...... where have you not been but want to go to ?
4 5 6
Replies
105
Views
2K
Snowgoose-1
S

Share this page

Top